69 thoughts on “The End of Welfare: Impact on Puerto Rico?”
RE: RE: bad times
“As a first
generation Nuyorican growing up in the
1950’s, I believed that we would have
progress to an elevated status”
Actually, PRs have been in both Harlem and Brooklyn since the start of the 20th century (end of the 19th, actually); From Colonia to Community has excellent material on this topic.
It is in fact having a safety net that allowed PRs a modicum of survival–it is for example, the loss of manufacturing jobs in NYC over a decade or two that has sunk the community–that and crappy educational systems (for which we are ALL responsible), among other issues. The fact of the matter is, that on the mainland, PRs were seen as either black or some “other” thus justifying the ghettoization of our people.
RE: RE: RE: RE: bad times
Simple answers.
(a) Yes
(b) Yes. It is not that Boricuas see Dominicans as “below” them. PR has a high unemployment rate already, our culture is diminishing fast, drugs and prostitution are a problem. Dominicans are just making those problems worse in PR. That is the feeling of most Boricuas, a detest for foreigners, just taking up more space. We accepted Cuban immigrants more, because when they came, they adapted rapdily, and are now doing better then PR’s. Dominicans are not doing the same. I am not racist against Dominicans, I am half Dominican. It is just the general feeling of many Puerto Ricans. Sorry, I can’t put a number on that. All I can give is an anecdote. Go to Río Piedras, or Santurce, such as Villa Palmieri, and you’ll see what I am talking about.
RE: RE: Welfare Reform
I am not sure if you are adressing me, or the other guy.
I totally agree with your last statement, and much much more then that will also be needed to create a self-sufficient Puerto Rico. The thing is, we need to start now. Just to let you know, there is a new party, in PR, trying to create a self-sufficient Borinquen. It is creating a lot of controversey, but the general public don’t really know about them. You’ll find out soon enough, just keep ordering that El Nuevo Dia newspaper, and you’ll see what I mean….
Anyway, I am not slashing the poor’s throat. I am giving a general truth about PR, one, I already proved with numbers. 40% Of the population are dependent on a colonizer’s money, you said the ELA is colonial. What do colonizer’s do to their colonies? make them dependent, and economically interlinked to their economy, for their own benefit…etc That is what is happening in PR.
RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
I never stated welfare was the sole thing keeping PR dependent. Welfare, is apart of PR’s colonialism, is one of the things that keep PR dependent. Other USA “goodies” also keep the people hungry for more, allowing PR to stay a “commonwealth” to be able to recieve them.
I never stated welfare was wrong, it needs to be revamped. Welfare in PR’s case is VERY DIFFERENT, because its a colonizer controling the colonized, such as a fisherman with a bate to the fish in the sea.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
“So was voting for blacks and women in
this country. As to reparations, the
Southern countries have agitated for
this now since at least the 1970s–a
noble cause” (isn’t this what Reagan
said in 1981 about the US in Vietnam?)
that has been articulated by many.”
Voting for women and blacks in this country, didn’t mean billions and billions of $$$ from former Imperialistic nations, to impovrished nations, proving they were wrong of mass murder…etc Those things are different compared to just casting a vote for a minority. Still, I agree with you, but a lot more has to be done before any Western nation give a penny to their former colonies. What are you doing, to make it happen?
You like to make a lot of comparisons with Ronald Reagan, don’t you? Anyway, Vietnam for me, was not any of the USA’s business, and the USA paid for it with over 56,000 lives, and the Vietnamese suffered with nearly 2 million lives.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
They’re different in type, not in kind. That is, both were “dreams” until they became reality, thanks to the efforts of many.
So, the fact that the West has not apologized to anyone (or virtually no one) just means the agitation must be louder.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
They’re different in type, not in kind. That is, both were “dreams” until they became reality, thanks to the efforts of many.
So, the fact that the West has not apologized to anyone (or virtually no one) just means the agitation must be louder.
I LOVE quoting Ronald Reagan–it’s incredible just how much damage he did to the country as well as how often his thoughts (if that’s what they were) still are quoted in this country, as if he were a genius.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: bad times
“We accepted Cuban immigrants
more, because when they came, they
adapted rapdily, and are now doing
better then PR’s.”
I’d say it was ’cause {a) the Cubans were seen as refugees from that big bad Castro Communist dude and (b) as a result of (a), Cubans were entitled to programs that other Communist fleeing refugees were entitled to, but NOT PRs: cheap loans, housing credits, etc. (c) The Cubans fleeing Castro the first time were virtually all of the upper elite class that participated with Batista in the raping of Cuba; i.e., they were virtually all light skinned, and fit in quite well with the US population (d) Cubans saw themselves as being here temporarily–with the defeat of the Bay of Pigs, they figured out they’d be here for a while, and built up their community.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: bad times
EXACTLY!!!!
Thank you, I was just hoping you would point that out!
In Juncos, (My town, where my family have lived for about 200 years) a young Cuban Family moved in my cousin’s land, she rented an apartment to them. They fit in PR perfectly, they just came from Florida and a year before that, Cuba. They wer elightskinned, with blue eyes, perfect Spanish skills (ofcourse, an affect from Castro’s Cuba) and job skills, and they are doing terrific in PR.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: bad times
continued….
The thing is, the Cubans coming to PR in vast numbers, are not as elitest as in 1959. I have seens Cubans in PR “prieta como la noche” with not exactly perfect language skills, job…etc (Their from El Oriente) Though, they fit in perfectly, they quickly learn the skills they need, they don’t ge tinto drugs, crime…alcohol. Then again, that is what I have seen, and now many of them are living in Guaynabo, while the Dominicans come and do as good as they could. Then again, their children and grandchildren aren’t doing as good as they could, they could do better. As a friend of mine, who was married to a Cuban, said “Cubans are the nerds of the Carribean.” jajaja
The racist conditions in which Dominicans work in should change, as should all the bad conditions in PR should be worke don. Still, the Dominicans coming to PR aren’t exactly ideal immigrants, and other immigrants, from Brasil or México are not doing the same. That is just how it is in Puerto Rico.
Oh, I also I made a discrepency with a Barrio I wrote before. Its Barrio Palmera in Santurce, where they have a large Dominican population. Palmieri is the last name of the PR Salsa singer Eddie Palmieri, jajaja.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
Exactly, and if you want it to take place, you mus thave a hand in that “loudness” as well. As Mahatma Gandhi once said, “You must be the starting point of change you wish to see in the world.”
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
A friend of mine, whose a radical Puerto Rican socialist anthropologist, told me an interesting story that involved Ronald Reagan. She told me the writer of the book “Dutch” which was a biography of Ronald Reagan, done by a South African writer,LOVED Reagan. The funny thing is, when he was writing the book and did all these interviews of his former cabinet memebers, family…etc he found out something about Ronny, that is not surprising at all. When the writer published the book and did a televised interview about it, he told the entire country, that Ronald Reagan was a man of NO COMPASSION, and then the writer cried. He had dedicated 10 years to this book of a man he thought was a great person, only to hav ehis heart shattered as he realized the TRUTH of EVIL RONNY. jajaja
Preach on, indeed!
It does benefit “the workers”. I ask you which workers. With unemployment at an all time high. It looks more like certain sectors are benefiting at the expense of other sectors. That $200 or $300 tax rebate may have felt good to receive in the mail but did not take many very far. And as part of a strategy that assumed continued economic growth, we may be currently feeling its bad effects. The elderly certainly have not benefitted. The healthcare system is in dire need of being overhauled and the misconceived idea of allowing workers to invest or spend their social security money, as part of an insidious plan to dismantle it, has not helped any one, except perhaps those who think that if they are doing well, everyone else must be.
Bush just acknowledged the sorry state of the nation’s nursing homes, yet in the same breath said there would be no money to conduct a study on ways to improve it and certainly no money to remedy the dire situation our elderly parents find themselves helplessly in. Our educational system to needs redress.
Now, there are things, we as individuals can directly donate to and help. Witness, the after September 11 windfall. However as a general rule which stood the test of time, individual donations can not resolve systemic or institutional problems only rational. far-reaching governmental policies can.
I know your frustration. But you will slowly come to see, as the economy further sinks into recession and the social net is further eroded, that like the Great Depression, it will take broad, sweeping economic and social policies as well as tremendous resources that only the federal government can muster to tackle these issues.
Your hard-earned dollars are doubtlessly well-deserved as mine are. Yet I am willing to spend for the elderly and less fortunate. I am willing to share my wealth as a member of a larger community. I do not have a problem paying my share of taxes and social security in order to know and feel that others around me and those less fortunate are going to bed with the proper medical care and nutrition and education. This is the measure of a great and humane society.
Preach on, indeed!
RE: Preach on!
I’m sorry—-the idea of an African American Republican is just too mind boggling. I need time to deal with it! 🙂
Why?
Why? It’s a good thing. Colin Powell, Michael Powell, etc., etc. Now it will finally come to light that class issues are really at the heart of these matters not race or ethnicity.
RE: RE: Bad Times
This is personal, My brother. Not only was our ancestry in almost total destruction but our dignity, pride and common decency to live as we choose was tampered with. if that isn’t personal then what the hell is. welfare was and is the raping and pillagging of our heritage of self sufficiency. Now that our 2nd and third generations are accustomed to the handout our people are told to get off of welfare. I beleive in independence and we will be self sufficient. we would find a way to survive!!!!! We have been doing it for thousands of years.
RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
Another example of blaming the victim
RE: Why?
Colin Powell: man who covered up My Lai massacre and supervised the continuing 10 year decimation of the Iraqi people.
Michael Powell: a man who doesn’t think in a democracy there’s anything wrong with a few companies controlling all media outlets.
Refer to Jackie Robinson’s (an African American Republican) comment at the Republican Convention of 1956.
Class IS important; however, in US history, ethnicity was more important, at least vis a vis African Americans and whites.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
Another example of blaming the colonizer for taking advantage of the “victim.” You can’t be a victim forever, that would be self-pity! 🙂
RE: RE: bad times
“As a first
generation Nuyorican growing up in the
1950’s, I believed that we would have
progress to an elevated status”
Actually, PRs have been in both Harlem and Brooklyn since the start of the 20th century (end of the 19th, actually); From Colonia to Community has excellent material on this topic.
It is in fact having a safety net that allowed PRs a modicum of survival–it is for example, the loss of manufacturing jobs in NYC over a decade or two that has sunk the community–that and crappy educational systems (for which we are ALL responsible), among other issues. The fact of the matter is, that on the mainland, PRs were seen as either black or some “other” thus justifying the ghettoization of our people.
RE: RE: RE: RE: bad times
Simple answers.
(a) Yes
(b) Yes. It is not that Boricuas see Dominicans as “below” them. PR has a high unemployment rate already, our culture is diminishing fast, drugs and prostitution are a problem. Dominicans are just making those problems worse in PR. That is the feeling of most Boricuas, a detest for foreigners, just taking up more space. We accepted Cuban immigrants more, because when they came, they adapted rapdily, and are now doing better then PR’s. Dominicans are not doing the same. I am not racist against Dominicans, I am half Dominican. It is just the general feeling of many Puerto Ricans. Sorry, I can’t put a number on that. All I can give is an anecdote. Go to Río Piedras, or Santurce, such as Villa Palmieri, and you’ll see what I am talking about.
RE: RE: Welfare Reform
I am not sure if you are adressing me, or the other guy.
I totally agree with your last statement, and much much more then that will also be needed to create a self-sufficient Puerto Rico. The thing is, we need to start now. Just to let you know, there is a new party, in PR, trying to create a self-sufficient Borinquen. It is creating a lot of controversey, but the general public don’t really know about them. You’ll find out soon enough, just keep ordering that El Nuevo Dia newspaper, and you’ll see what I mean….
Anyway, I am not slashing the poor’s throat. I am giving a general truth about PR, one, I already proved with numbers. 40% Of the population are dependent on a colonizer’s money, you said the ELA is colonial. What do colonizer’s do to their colonies? make them dependent, and economically interlinked to their economy, for their own benefit…etc That is what is happening in PR.
RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
I never stated welfare was the sole thing keeping PR dependent. Welfare, is apart of PR’s colonialism, is one of the things that keep PR dependent. Other USA “goodies” also keep the people hungry for more, allowing PR to stay a “commonwealth” to be able to recieve them.
I never stated welfare was wrong, it needs to be revamped. Welfare in PR’s case is VERY DIFFERENT, because its a colonizer controling the colonized, such as a fisherman with a bate to the fish in the sea.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
“So was voting for blacks and women in
this country. As to reparations, the
Southern countries have agitated for
this now since at least the 1970s–a
noble cause” (isn’t this what Reagan
said in 1981 about the US in Vietnam?)
that has been articulated by many.”
Voting for women and blacks in this country, didn’t mean billions and billions of $$$ from former Imperialistic nations, to impovrished nations, proving they were wrong of mass murder…etc Those things are different compared to just casting a vote for a minority. Still, I agree with you, but a lot more has to be done before any Western nation give a penny to their former colonies. What are you doing, to make it happen?
You like to make a lot of comparisons with Ronald Reagan, don’t you? Anyway, Vietnam for me, was not any of the USA’s business, and the USA paid for it with over 56,000 lives, and the Vietnamese suffered with nearly 2 million lives.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
They’re different in type, not in kind. That is, both were “dreams” until they became reality, thanks to the efforts of many.
So, the fact that the West has not apologized to anyone (or virtually no one) just means the agitation must be louder.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
They’re different in type, not in kind. That is, both were “dreams” until they became reality, thanks to the efforts of many.
So, the fact that the West has not apologized to anyone (or virtually no one) just means the agitation must be louder.
I LOVE quoting Ronald Reagan–it’s incredible just how much damage he did to the country as well as how often his thoughts (if that’s what they were) still are quoted in this country, as if he were a genius.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: bad times
“We accepted Cuban immigrants
more, because when they came, they
adapted rapdily, and are now doing
better then PR’s.”
I’d say it was ’cause {a) the Cubans were seen as refugees from that big bad Castro Communist dude and (b) as a result of (a), Cubans were entitled to programs that other Communist fleeing refugees were entitled to, but NOT PRs: cheap loans, housing credits, etc. (c) The Cubans fleeing Castro the first time were virtually all of the upper elite class that participated with Batista in the raping of Cuba; i.e., they were virtually all light skinned, and fit in quite well with the US population (d) Cubans saw themselves as being here temporarily–with the defeat of the Bay of Pigs, they figured out they’d be here for a while, and built up their community.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: bad times
EXACTLY!!!!
Thank you, I was just hoping you would point that out!
In Juncos, (My town, where my family have lived for about 200 years) a young Cuban Family moved in my cousin’s land, she rented an apartment to them. They fit in PR perfectly, they just came from Florida and a year before that, Cuba. They wer elightskinned, with blue eyes, perfect Spanish skills (ofcourse, an affect from Castro’s Cuba) and job skills, and they are doing terrific in PR.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: bad times
continued….
The thing is, the Cubans coming to PR in vast numbers, are not as elitest as in 1959. I have seens Cubans in PR “prieta como la noche” with not exactly perfect language skills, job…etc (Their from El Oriente) Though, they fit in perfectly, they quickly learn the skills they need, they don’t ge tinto drugs, crime…alcohol. Then again, that is what I have seen, and now many of them are living in Guaynabo, while the Dominicans come and do as good as they could. Then again, their children and grandchildren aren’t doing as good as they could, they could do better. As a friend of mine, who was married to a Cuban, said “Cubans are the nerds of the Carribean.” jajaja
The racist conditions in which Dominicans work in should change, as should all the bad conditions in PR should be worke don. Still, the Dominicans coming to PR aren’t exactly ideal immigrants, and other immigrants, from Brasil or México are not doing the same. That is just how it is in Puerto Rico.
Oh, I also I made a discrepency with a Barrio I wrote before. Its Barrio Palmera in Santurce, where they have a large Dominican population. Palmieri is the last name of the PR Salsa singer Eddie Palmieri, jajaja.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
Exactly, and if you want it to take place, you mus thave a hand in that “loudness” as well. As Mahatma Gandhi once said, “You must be the starting point of change you wish to see in the world.”
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
A friend of mine, whose a radical Puerto Rican socialist anthropologist, told me an interesting story that involved Ronald Reagan. She told me the writer of the book “Dutch” which was a biography of Ronald Reagan, done by a South African writer,LOVED Reagan. The funny thing is, when he was writing the book and did all these interviews of his former cabinet memebers, family…etc he found out something about Ronny, that is not surprising at all. When the writer published the book and did a televised interview about it, he told the entire country, that Ronald Reagan was a man of NO COMPASSION, and then the writer cried. He had dedicated 10 years to this book of a man he thought was a great person, only to hav ehis heart shattered as he realized the TRUTH of EVIL RONNY. jajaja
Preach on, indeed!
It does benefit “the workers”. I ask you which workers. With unemployment at an all time high. It looks more like certain sectors are benefiting at the expense of other sectors. That $200 or $300 tax rebate may have felt good to receive in the mail but did not take many very far. And as part of a strategy that assumed continued economic growth, we may be currently feeling its bad effects. The elderly certainly have not benefitted. The healthcare system is in dire need of being overhauled and the misconceived idea of allowing workers to invest or spend their social security money, as part of an insidious plan to dismantle it, has not helped any one, except perhaps those who think that if they are doing well, everyone else must be.
Bush just acknowledged the sorry state of the nation’s nursing homes, yet in the same breath said there would be no money to conduct a study on ways to improve it and certainly no money to remedy the dire situation our elderly parents find themselves helplessly in. Our educational system to needs redress.
Now, there are things, we as individuals can directly donate to and help. Witness, the after September 11 windfall. However as a general rule which stood the test of time, individual donations can not resolve systemic or institutional problems only rational. far-reaching governmental policies can.
I know your frustration. But you will slowly come to see, as the economy further sinks into recession and the social net is further eroded, that like the Great Depression, it will take broad, sweeping economic and social policies as well as tremendous resources that only the federal government can muster to tackle these issues.
Your hard-earned dollars are doubtlessly well-deserved as mine are. Yet I am willing to spend for the elderly and less fortunate. I am willing to share my wealth as a member of a larger community. I do not have a problem paying my share of taxes and social security in order to know and feel that others around me and those less fortunate are going to bed with the proper medical care and nutrition and education. This is the measure of a great and humane society.
Preach on, indeed!
RE: Preach on!
I’m sorry—-the idea of an African American Republican is just too mind boggling. I need time to deal with it! 🙂
Why?
Why? It’s a good thing. Colin Powell, Michael Powell, etc., etc. Now it will finally come to light that class issues are really at the heart of these matters not race or ethnicity.
RE: RE: Bad Times
This is personal, My brother. Not only was our ancestry in almost total destruction but our dignity, pride and common decency to live as we choose was tampered with. if that isn’t personal then what the hell is. welfare was and is the raping and pillagging of our heritage of self sufficiency. Now that our 2nd and third generations are accustomed to the handout our people are told to get off of welfare. I beleive in independence and we will be self sufficient. we would find a way to survive!!!!! We have been doing it for thousands of years.
RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
Another example of blaming the victim
RE: Why?
Colin Powell: man who covered up My Lai massacre and supervised the continuing 10 year decimation of the Iraqi people.
Michael Powell: a man who doesn’t think in a democracy there’s anything wrong with a few companies controlling all media outlets.
Refer to Jackie Robinson’s (an African American Republican) comment at the Republican Convention of 1956.
Class IS important; however, in US history, ethnicity was more important, at least vis a vis African Americans and whites.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad Times
Another example of blaming the colonizer for taking advantage of the “victim.” You can’t be a victim forever, that would be self-pity! 🙂