72 thoughts on “How Does PR’s Political Status affect Puerto Ricans in the US and abroad?”
Independence
It is unfortunate, and sad too, that the fact that Puerto Rico is the only island in the Caribbean that has not obtained its independence is not an embarrassment to Estadistas; especially in light of the fact that the vast majority of North Americans do not want Puerto Rico as a state.
My American friends continually complain to me that when they visited Puerto Rico last, they did not feel that they were in a foreign land, the American influence was so strong. Retaining Spanish as a primary language will not be enough to uphold the integrity of the culture: Spanish can be spoken in McDonald’s and Pizza Hut, as easily as it can be spoken at a charming fonda.
RE: Independence
I find what you’re saying a little confusing. Why should Americans complain that they don’t feel like their in a foreign land when they’re in Puerto Rico? The U.S. has a virtual monopoly on what is bought and sold in Puerto Rico–American products. Ergo, they should feel at home since their objects occupy our space.
I agree that Spanish is but one factor among many in a culture’s character. It is an extremely important one. It is a necessary condition if there is to be a uniquely distinct identity and continuity with the history of Puerto Rico for over the past 500 years. You can’t supplant the Spanish language without radically affecting the people. Language is really the sieve through which we experience and express ourselves.
RE: RE: Independence
To Joni Arroyo:
The point of my comment on language is that all colonized peoples have had the privelege of speaking their native tongue, but yet they are not able to realize their true identies in spite of that. Without self determination and political control of one’s nation, the efficacy of language as a sustaining element of culture, never reaches its full potential — in effect, it is rendered impotent.
I am in no way suggesting that it is not of utmost importance in identity. I am saying that without its own political integrity, a nation cannot act on its collective mythology, its dreams, its aspirations.
My position on Spanish in Puerto Rico is that it should be the lingua franca; English should be secondary and voluntary, although English has and always will play a lea
RE: RE: RE: Independence
(This is a continuation of my comments dated April 10 which were lobbed off when the message was posted. The system designers are correcting this flaw.)
My position on Spanish in Puerto Rico is that it should be the lingua franca for the Island; English should be secondary and voluntary, although English has and always will play a leading role in world trade and international business transactions.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Independence
The only reason English is an issue in Puerto Rico is because it is the colony of an English-speaking nation that tried and continues to try to impose English as the language of the island in which case–you know what will happen. The island will truly become “Our land their people” except that the people would have vanished because they would nolonger be identifiable through their language and then gradually–even their customs and foods would fade to a TACO BELL type of packaged and processed American reality. Spanish is the language of the nation and if people want to learn English, French, Italian, Swahili, Chinese, Japanese, Hindi–they are more than welcome to. I for one would like to know how to speak Spanish better and then my next favorite would be Chinese. But this is to say–let us not mince words about Puerto Rican culture and identity. Culture and identity is directly tied into language in a profound psychological and social way.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Independence
Well then, what’s the problem? We’re still stuck with a century old colony. Where can we go from here? The way I see it, we’ll just continue in a limbo state–until, gradually, our history and culture disappear, then the U.S. will just swallow us up whole and Puerto Ricans won’t even know the difference. This is how we became American citizens. No one ever asked my mother if she wanted to become a citizen, she just woke up one day and discovered her national identity had changed.
On language and culture…
Well, Joni, I’m afraid that I’m a dyed in the wool optimist; but I realize that is one of my personalaity flaws.
What could happen is that Puerto Rican culture goes underground, just the way the Boriken did. Of course, the idea of culture is to be visible to the world, but an embattled culture often has no other choice. Culture can retreat back in to the collective consciousness. Perhaps there it can reconnect with its myth and become reenergized (read, politicized.)
P Pietri has some very interesting and beautiful verses on this idea of culture not perishing but flourishing in the collective consciousness. In that way, a people can be vanquish but their culture can never be truly extinguished. It just becomes less visible from an oppresor point of view. The good news is that oppressor cultures have a tendency to delude themselves that their power and authority penetrates more deeply than it actually does. Pietri uses this notion to bind autoctonic cultures together; regardless of whether their ancient cities are buried under millenia of overgrowth. We us, the collective consciousness goes even further — indigenous, African, and IberoCaribbean. There is no reason to perish –unless we want to.
RE: On culture…but…
Are we the only ones on this board? What’sup? Anyway, I think what you’ve said is really a cop out. The reality is that Boriken is a fiction, a myth– because the people have been annihilated. If you hold this up as the prospect for the future “underground” existence of our culture, I pity us. What you are actually saying is that we shall indeed become extinct–as the Taino has. Albeit their blood runs in our veins and their culture is definitely a part of Puerto Rican culture. Some of us look very Taino, but we must look hard at times to distinguish those features. The food we eat and our sweet temperament are traits I attribute to them. That dark copper-like skin tone that is not Mediterranean or African I also attribute to them. Funny, you should mention Pietri since I think he physically looks very Taino–albeit mixed with Spanish and African blood. But be this as it may. The oppressor does not have to delude himself because he is the oppressor. To be allowed to conduct our cultural rituals privately behind closed doors and in the shadow of their cultural hegemony, as the statehooders so shamefacedly proclaim for our future, is really to die as a culture and truly to become a subgroup, an ethnic minority in our own land. There is a long and rich precedence for this among the Hispanos of the Southwest of the U.S. and the Californios of California who really—who has ever really heard of any of these people? It took 100 years to forget them once their language use declined and as Gringos entered their lands seeking new opportunities. For me it is really a matter of risk. What we are willing to risk to join of very sad community of Third World countries who are being strangled by the seven developed nations or to allow ourselves to disappear into an industrial park of U.S. manufactured products. Thus being defined as a consumer, nothing more and nothing less.
PR’s status
Hey. you guys are consistently talking around the issue of Puerto Rico’s political status and how it affects us. Certainly our language and culture are directly affected. However, look at some of the other Latin American countries, they too suffer from the onslaught of American mercantilism and basically seem powerless to do anything about it. (If they are not welcoming it) I just happened to be on the NYC subway a fortnight ago and lo and behold! I caught sight of a trashed Ecuadoran newspaper! What a treat! I thought I’d see what films Ecuadorans are watching and to my dismay and consternation, they were watching the latest American films dubbed in Spanish. You can imagine how upset I was. I then looked high and low through the paper to see if there were any ads for Ecuadoran films. I found none. Well–? I say this as a way of pointing out that independence is only the beginning not the final solution to our problems. It will in fact present us with a whole new set of problems: That of being imperialized in a different way–oops!–forgive me, I believe people these days are using the word globalized, as if this were a good thing. Well–I always ask, who’s globalizing who? Or should I say whom?
?Quien esta globalizando a quien?
On culture: all is not lost…
Joni,
1. The press announcing this site has not gone out yet. It’s brand new; only a small number are aware of it. SPREAD THE WORD.
2. eMail Judy Escalona: she’ll tell you more about the concept.
Your thoughts are pretty powerful. We do not quite have the same perspective, but I’m not sure there is a fundamental difference in what we have to say.
Puerto Rico is in chronic oppression; the culture is in decline; the future for the Island and its culture appears dim.
Although I brand myself as an optimist, I do recognize one important difference between Puerto Rico of today and the cultures you refer to. Each of them may have reached its apogee before decline or being vanquished from the outside.
Puerto Rican culture has never reached a high point — clearly because we have been colonized for 500 years. My point, and we may differ on this, is that culture is never completely extinguishable. My scenario that the culture may go underground and reconnect with its “life-giving” myth is not a proposal. It is a description of a scenario that might be a natural defense — dormancy or playing possum, until it can gather enough strength to throw off the yoke of colonialism. I don’t like it one bit, but with a “diaspora” that includes an intellectual and activist community (including the generation that has had no direct link with the Island), the underground culture can serve as the fountain to draw new life from. But I repeat, even this cannot happen without a political will for self determination.
RE: Vieques and PR’s political status
This past Monday un señor from the
island of Vieques, which is part of
Puerto Rico, a man by the name of David
Sanet died and four others were injured
during a military exercise involving the
dropping of two bombs by a US F-18
aircraft! The governor and the
leadership of the other parties have
reacted by demanding that these military
exercises be stopped. We shall see.
For over twenty years the people on the
island have been fighting to get the U.S
Navy out of Vieques. They set up a naval base there in the 40’s, the Roosevelt Roads Naval Base. The base and its maneuvers destroyed the fishing industry of the island and caused the overall decline of the population. 20% of the Vieques population suffer from cancers directly connected with military practices, according to Dr. Rafael Rivera Castaño who conducted a study.
This is an example of how Puerto Ricans
on the island are affected by their
politcal status. They are petitioning
the President of the United States and
hope for a response. What do you think?
El Islam es la unica solucion para PR
La cultura de cada pais es una suma total de todo lo qe le haya cultivado en
su formacion socio-cultural. Aquella “cultura”, legitima, digna de sobreviviencia entre las expresiones culturales, debera estar en un constante
proceso de cultivo floreciente. Solo asi podra ser llamda una cultura
“culta”. Aquellas personas que digan ser “cultas” o bien instruidas tendra
que estar en un constante consistente cultivo sano, internao, dentro de sus
ciudadanos lo cual se vera visiblemenete dentro de sus expresiones
culturales. Una cultura estancada y atrazada, come tanbien aquellas personas
y miembros de un pueblo, en semjante condicion cultural, tarde o temprano,
llega a su ruina al no ser que sea universal, reanimondose de nuevo.
“Dios no cambia, ni para el bien ni para el mal, la condicion de un pueblo,
hasta que ellos no se cambien y transformen ellos mismos!” dice el Dios del cielo y la tierra en su ultima revelacion “El Coran”. El judeocristianismo ha enganado a Latino America con su misterio trinitario. El Islam es la unica solucion para PR.
El PIP envolucrado con una idiologia que no ha logrado nada (Socialismo)
nunca sera respetada por los Boricuas ni los Yankees de la Isla.
(escrito por un Mosulman Boricua, que nacio y a vivido en PR)
Umar
RE: El Islam no es la unica solucion para PR
Yo me sorpriendo en enterarme de esta solucion. El tratamiento de mujeres en el mundo Islamico no es algo que se puede imponer a la mujer puertorriquena. La Cultura Puertorriquena se ha desarrollado en una manera que le ha dado a las mujeres mas derechos y eso no se puede eliminar. Lo que es necesario es buscar unos remedios que son afuera del dogma religioso y politico.
PR’s political status
Por mi parte, I think this topic is tired. Puerto Rico’s colonial condition and its ultimate absorption into the U.S. as a state is a done deal. It’s really a question and matter of when? It may take another hundred years, but Puerto Rico will become a state and resolve the ambivalent feelings we have about ourselves and other Americans.
RE: PR’s political status
Puede ser que tu tengas razón. Sin embargao, me resisto a creer que “la suerte está hechada.” Es decir, creo que tu posicion es demasiado conformista cuando la discusión sobre el destino de Puerto Rico está aun en las manos de los Puertoriqueños. Más aun, creo que el tema de la libertad y la autodeterminación concierne fundamentalmente a quienes carecen de ella. La idea es, entonces, asumirnos no-libres y alcanzar un consenso sobre cómo llegar a serlo. No crees?
The Special Commission on Vieques
It seems, after all, that the Viequenses will be vindicated. Their struggle has been continuous and now a commission consisting of people with diverse ideologies have all come to the conclusion that the U.S. Navy should get out of Vieques. And what next? The governor now must go to the President of the U.S. and appeal to him to do the right thing and pull our troops out. If not–what then? Well this speaks volumes to me about our colonial status. The Puerto Ricans in the U.S. should be pressuring the president and Congress to get the Navy out and pay reparation for the damage done plus the development/restoration of that land and its people.
Free Association: Puerto Rico’s Destiny
Contrary to popular assumptions, Puerto Rico’s status is far from being a “done” deal in favor of any of the three traditional status options. In fact, as demonstrated by the Young Bill and the last island plebiscite, both US legislators and Puerto Rican civil society are looking for new solutions that avoid the traditional schizophrenic extremities inherent in current status options: ie, full assimilation as a state, complete separation under an outdated, 19th century definition of independence, or colonial subservience as a territory. All along, Puerto Ricans in the United States have been kept out of the status debate, in an artificial attempt to divide and conquer the Puerto Rican vote. However, times are changing, and new solutions are increasingly being advocated that take into account the complexity of the Puerto Rican experience. One such potential solution is Free Association, which would in fact, create a treaty of cooperation between the United States and Puerto Rico thereby explicitly returning sovereignty to the Puerto Rican people, while still sharing sovereignty with the United States in areas of common interest (ie, Common citizenship, defense, currency, and market), thereby ensuring that Puerto Rico does not become victim to the same neocolonial plagues that have caused economic and political havoc in many of our neighboring countries. While this is a very truncated definition of Free Association, those interested may visit our site at http://www.puertorico2000.com for further information.
Oh yes, and in regards to the original question: Puerto Rico’s status directly affects Puerto Ricans on the mainland, economically, psychologically, and socioculturally. Afterall, our continued existence as “Puerto Ricans” is predicated on the continued existence of a separate political and sociocultural entity known as Puerto Rico. Conversely, its tragic disappearance as a state would imply our “disappearance” as well, an act to which we have not granted consent. Afterall, the arms and limbs of the Puerto Rican nation can not exist if its heart is excised and stops beating.
RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
I really like your spirit and uabashed faith in this “new” alternative you believe you have embarked upon. I have gone to your website and will withold my views for another time and instead address this “new” direction you so strongly advocate for. “Free Association” is not new but a rehashing of the old concept of “Free Associated State” which Puerto Rico already is.
If you think independence is an old notion, think again. There really are only two alternatives: independence or statehood. The arrangement you call for–which actually already exists–is a continuation of Puerto Rico colonial condition. And although you believe you will avoid the pitfalls of neocolonialistic independence, your proposal actually places Puerto Rico squarely in a neocolonial situation which it is trying to avoid. You also think you will avoid the “cultural issues” connected with statehood, but not so. Upon closer examination the piecemeal destruction of Puerto Rican culture is guaranteed in maintaining common citizenship. The real issue is whether non-Puerto Rican Americans in Puerto Rico would share the interest of Puerto Ricans, not how Puerto Ricans when in the U.S. would be treated. Although this is a separate and equally important concern. Think of Hawaii and the Dole family. Did they have the interest of the native Hawaiian population at heart? Not at all. Independence does not necessarily mean an antagonistic or hostile relation to the United States–not at all. But if it came to that, so be it. Nationhood is not negotiable. It is what it is–the heart, to use your expression. If you take nationhood away, there is nothing to discuss, debate or fight for. That is at the crux of what is going on in Vieques.
Sure colonialism rears its ugly head in the form of neocolonialism but the reality is that the “struggle,” if one can call it that, is precisely taking this form. I myself would rather have Puerto Rico become a kind of Santo Domingo or Mexico than a Florida or a California. Enough for now. Thank you for your honesty
RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
I like you kiwi, but what kind of a name is that? Anyway, I think you’re right in saying the condition of NEOCOLONIALISM expresses the real world divisions between the rich industrial countries and the poor semi-industrial or rural countries. I think technology will factor in and bring an expansion of consumerism but we’re really looking at the same basic situation.
Anyway, I think both of you, Maldonado being the other, are seeking answers in the wrong places. You kind of remain idealists–intellectuals debating possibility after possibility. What is real is the pressure that must develop on the island (and which definitely exists) to push Congress into freeing Puerto Rico. The question should not be independence or statehood, but rather what kind of independence. No shared currency because we know what that really disguises and no shared citizenship although Puerto Ricans should be given dual citizenship or some sort of U.S. citizenship which fades out in the third generation after independence is established. And there are other formulations I won’t go into.
But I do want to say lastly that Maldonado’s “Free Association” is not unlike, strangely and ironically enough, as that group of men who are calling for “Radical Democracy.” It is the petit bourgeios counterpart to the supposedly proletariat proposal.
RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
Well I am certainly glad to have triggered some responses, whether negative or positive, they both contribute to a new dialogue regarding potential new solutions to Puerto Rico’s status problem.
That being said, it is critical for us to escape old cliches and generalizations. Free Association is not a “rehashing” of the current Commonwealth status, nor is it the same thing disguised in new clothes. The basic, funamental difference is that under Free Association, Puerto Rico would no longer be a territory of the United States, bound by the Constitution’s territorial clause which grants Congress plenary powers over the island. This is a fundamental political and juridical difference which returns political sovereignty to the hands of the Puerto Rican people. I invite you to explore the political and economic implications of this distinction in any future research that you may embark upon.
In addition, in response to Mr. Arroyo’s comments regarding citizenship and currency, we do share some points of agreement and some differences. First of all, we do believe in dual citizenship, US and Puerto Rican citizenship. Those individuals who do not want US citizenship, of course, would of course have the right to renounce it under Free Association, thereby holding Puerto Rican citizenship alone. However, we disagree with any “phase out” plan, since such a plan is unconstitutional and would violate individuals’ vested citizenship rights which are protected by the 5th and 14th Ammendments. No Puerto Rican can or should be deprived of his or her citizenship rights under any status, whether it be Commonwealth, Free Association, or Independence unless he or she willingly renounces such rights as established by international law. Finally, we should be cautious when we talk about currency so as not to paint an overly idealized version of independence. Simply look at the East Asian Tiger’s recent economic turmoil which resulted in the sharp devaluation of their local currencies and caused enormous political and economic chaos. Such devaluation makes independent countries subject to the neocolonial control of new international institutions such as the World Bank or the IMF. In addition, it is important to note that many countries now have a common currency, most importantly of which is the European Union. In addition, strong independent countries, such as Argentina who recognize the importance of having a strong currency, have recently considered “dollarizing” their economies, in order to prevent the continuation of devaluation and destabilization pressures surging from an increasingly competitive global economic environment.
Finally, we invite all of your readers to visit our new website on July 25th. While we do not pretend to try to convince those with their own, personal convictions, we do strive to create a more educated electorate. One that votes with both their hearts and their minds and is committed to the reconstruction of Puerto Rican society. If that is Utopian, so be it.
RE: Pathetic promotion
It’s kind of pathetic how you are trying to promote your website on this discussion board. You really didn’t address the distinction made by kiwi smit (what kind of name is this?) about non-Puerto Rican Americans on the island being sympathetic to Puerto Rican or North American interests a la Tejas (know your history). Also you don’t look at the question of the loss of Puerto Rican culture. Mind you–the entire world is interdependent. So what? The question is whose globalizing whom and what can be done about it? You don’t seem to want to look at the unavoidable condition of NEOCOLONIALISM. You want to talk about constitutional rights of Puerto Ricans but the reality is that Congress has established that Puerto Ricans are only American citizens in a statutory way so that citizenship can be taken away. This is on the Congressional record. Check it out. Also Juan Mari Bras has already renounced his American citizenship (along with several others) and have legally established that there is a nation of Puerto Rico and therefore a Puerto Rican citizenship that can not be disenfranchised on the island. This has already happened.
RE: RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
So many issues, so many issues… It should be noted that the island of Puerto Rico was headed towards full autonomy before that flower was nipped in the bud just over 100 years ago. I think that once again autonomy is the answer… I think that the island got a bad hand in terms of it’s fusion with the west. The name of the city is the name of the island. The name of the island is the name of the city. The seal for the island is a lamb in submissive pose. Weren’t lambs used for sacrifice somewhere… How come other countries get powerful symbols like lions, eagles, and snakes?
The island needs to grow up, it hasn’t been given this chance in over 500 years. I’m one who thinks that we should forge ahead on our own, like a full grown ram charging into the unknown… I don’t know enough about: Free Association, but I know that statehood is not the answer for me.
RE: RE: Pathetic promotion
I will give it up to Rosello today, even though they are for his 51 interests… I read that he has asked that Puerto Rico be returned to the United Nations list of colonial dependencies.
RE: RE: Pathetic promotion
Increible! Tanto que hablan de la necesidad de “preservar nuestra cultura” y del “neocolonialismo”, pero nadie escribe en Espanol! Dejense de enganarse. El neocolonialismo es un “issue” mundial que impacta a paises independientes tanto como a nuestro Puerto Rico actual. Si lo que buscan es alguna formula de independencia magica o perfecta capaz de solucionar todos los problemas de Puerto Rico, esperenla. Mientras tanto,hay que seguir luchando para buscar nuevas soluciones, tales como la Libre Asociacion propuesta por el Sr. Maldonado y otros lideres autonomistas en Puerto Rico.
Lo nuevo y lo viejo
Senores y senoras, ustedes creen que su propuesta es nueva o que se tiene que seguir en busqueda para algunas “nuevas soluciones.” Senores, cojan un momento y leen el “thread” de la discusion. Se puede ver alli que ustedes no estan escuchando uno al otro, mas que — como dicen los americanos — engaging in a shouting match. Ustedes deben de tratar a responder a las cuestiones que se han presentado, especialemente si creen convertir a sus compatriotas al Libre Asociacion. Me parece que ustedes no se respetan.
Llamar algo nuevo o viejo es decir nada. El concepto de autonomia empezo con los espanoles. No se enganen. Autonomia es el mas viejo “alternativa” que se ha presentado. Hay varias clases de autonomia, por supuesto, pero es autonomia. Lo que tenemos en Puerto Rico hoy en dia es una clase de autonomia aunque ustedes que creen en la propuesta “nueva” del Libre Asociacion quieren sugerirnos que su idea es unica. En verdad, no es unica y no es nueva.
Hay una viejita nacionalista que vive en Queens, que tiene como noventa y pico anos. Ella sobrevivio el Masacre de Ponce. Habla con ella es algo muy educativa. La distincion que ella hace, cuando le hablan del futuro de Puerto Rico es que muchos que debaten esto no dara su vida para el pueblo o la nacion de Puerto Rico y tamibien ninguno de ellos dara su vida por sus creencias.
Piensalo bien. Y traten escuchar mas que hablar. Leer y entender mas que escribir.
Puerto Rico Commemorates History
From: The Associated Press
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) – Thousands of Puerto Ricans on Sunday commemorated the 101st anniversary of the American invasion of Puerto Rico and 47 years as a free associated state of the United States.
Thousands of people gathered in the southern town of Guanica, where U.S.
soldiers invaded the Caribbean Spanish colony on July 25, 1898.
People who want Puerto Rico to become the 51st U.S. state marked the day as a
celebration. Mayor Edwin Galarza called it “the day that democracy arrived
through this municipality.”
Independence leaders saw the anniversary as the start of a “colonial condition” with the United States, independence supporter Jose Enrique Ayoroa Santaliz said during a rally.
Independence supporters also rallied against the U.S. Navy’s military
exercises on the inhabited island of Vieques, where a civilian guard was
killed in April by two 500-pound bombs dropped off target. A presidential
panel is investigating the Navy’s operations.
Meanwhile, commonwealth supporters in the northern town of Hatillo celebrated
the 47th anniversary of Congress’ decision to give the island its current
status as a Free Associated State, or commonwealth, with tax-exempt privileges.
Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens but do not pay federal taxes, do not have a
voting U.S. Congress member and cannot vote for president.
RE: On language and culture…
I have to say that the more I read, the more I am for independence…
freewrite from Los Angeles:
Independence will finally make everyone choose what they really want… Statehooders should realize that they must gain the approval of the congress after they win the plebicite… and what I always say is:
Are the citizens of the United States ready to incorporate a group of people that will have more weight in the house of representatives than at least half the states that are in the union currently?
I don’t think so…
Also, why are we not looking at the mess in Canada between the english and the french speakers? They have tried to do this together for over 100 years and Quebecois independence is an issue that continues to mount.
Something else: When the United States incorporated the Hawaiian Islands, immigrants outnumbered locals. The immigrants were from: The United States… of course the vote for statehood would be a sure thing. When Tejano independence was declared, it was by a group of immigrants from the United States… People who agreed to move into Mexican territory; people who then refused to cooperate with Mexican authority. Texas was incorporated after it’s short lived experiment. To date, territories that have been absorbed by the Union have had a large influx of settlers. This has not really happened in Puerto Rico…. yet.
Independence strikes a deep cord in my heart… am I ready to go and support my island? Are any of the Boricuas that live here ready? We are scared into what is tried and true… my grandparents generation are currently enjoying the benefits of social security. Why would they want independence? I have cousins that have never been to the island… they don’t have any connection to it. Do they care? What is their culture? Some of us are Puerto Rican-American, some of us are American of Puerto Rican decent… What is a first generation Puerto Rican at this point? Some would say that he is a United Stater. (We need to come up with a word different than American, since we all are…)What does the Danish-American person who grew up in Puerto Rico say she is? Is Salma Hayek Mexican?
Independence would be like an electric current thru the veins of anyone who cared… people would have to be black and white about their choice. Choosing has been made very hard for us because we have had the liberty to move without fronteras. It’s like opium… we are left in a haze… it’s easier to sit back and take another toke…
Puerto Ricans Take Washington by Storm
Puerto Ricans Take Washington by Storm, Demand: Freedom for Political Prisoners
Navy Out of Vieques
WASHINGTON, D.C. – More than 500 Puerto Ricans and supporters took Washington, D.C. by storm to demand the immediate resolution of the case calling for the
release of the Puerto Rican political prisoners and the departure of the US
Navy from the island of Vieques.
“The group held a series of activities on July 22 and 23 with this purpose,”
said Juan Marcos Vilar, national coordinator of the National Committee to
Free Puerto Rican Prisoners of War and Political Prisoners (National Committee). “All said and done, we had the lobbying effort which contacted
more than sixty legislators, the picket of the hearings regarding Vieques,
the White House visit by a delegation of friends and relatives of the prisoners, the demonstration with more than 500 people in front of the White House, the press conference, the act of civil disobedience, and the religious service in Lafayette Park represent a new level of militancy and struggle for the campaign. We succeeded in penetrating the circle of power in Washington,” he added.
On Thursday, July 22, more than 50 congressional representatives and 10
senators were visited. During the visits the situation of the prisoners was
discussed, along with the hope that President Clinton would soon approve the
petition for their release. The legislators were also asked to write letters to the President in support of the prisoners‚ release. As a direct result of the visits several important congresspersons committed themselves to write to the President.
Until now, 12 congressional representatives, including the three Puerto Ricans, Rep. Nydia Velazquez (D-NY), Rep. José Serrano (D-NY), and Luis V. Gutierrez (D-IL), have written to President Clinton in support of their
release.
While some delegations continued their visits with legislators on the morning
of July 23, about 50 protesters gathered in Arlington, Virginia, in front of the building where the hearings about the case of Vieques were being held. The protesters, led by a strong contingent from the Orlando chapter of the National Committee, picketed the hearings for three and a half hours and were interviewed by several news media.
At noon a political and cultural act began at Lafayette Park, across the
street from the White House, where hundreds gathered from Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Pennsylvania and other states.
RE: RE: On language and culture…
You make a lot of sense. I applaud you and respect your honesty in saying that the more you delve into this matter, the more you see independence as the only real alternative. Good for you -C.
La cuestion nacional…
LA CUESTION NACIONAL, LA DIASPORA BORICUA Y LA CUESTION ANTICOLONIAL HOY
Ya es hora de profundizar una vez mas sobre nuestra cuestion nacional en el
contexto de nuestra situacion diasporica i.e. mas de la mitad de la poblacion
boricua vive y vivira fuera del terruño isleño. En dicho contexto se debe
polemizar sobre la relacion entre la economia local de Puerto Rico y la de
los EEUU; y las implicaciones de esto ultimo en cuanto a la globalizacion, el
fin de el colonialismo, y el significado de la autodeterminacion con respecto
a las clases socialesy fragmentos nacionales y de clase que comprenden la
diaspora boricua.
PEYO1
P.S. Estoy dispuesto a proveer espacio para dicha discusion en el espacio
auditivo de CARIMBOFM aqui en EL Barrio.
Clinton, the PRPP’s and PR’s political status
Funny, how conversation on a subject can just die when things really get hot. You’d expect more not less and yet… Clinton’s move is of course political. He has found a way of saying okay he will pardon the Puerto Rican political prisoners but only if they admit or accept conditions that are completely unacceptable: They must admit to wrongdoing and criminal acts, they are forbidden to associate with other independentistas (what about their families and friends?), they must renounce violence and the use of violence as a viable political tool, etc. Now how are they going to respond to these conditions and others? If they accept them, then everything they have worked for and suffered for has been in vain–its worthless. Their actions are nolonger great acts or gestures in pursuit of freedom but just criminal and random acts of violence. Most of these men and women have already served about 15 to 20 years for seditious conspiracy and other counts. Why would they have spent that time in prison. Why did they declare themselves prisoners of war and why did they not defend themselves during their trials, taking the position that the U.S. courts lack jurisdiction over them. Clinton is attempting to circumvent their political statement and actions–while still looking good. Afterall, he did grant them a pardon. He’s put the ball in their court but it is already a very restricted game. Prolibertad said it will support any of their decisions. But I think they should stand firm in their beliefs and we should work harder to get them out–unconditionally.
RE: Clinton, the PRPP
Also I just wanted to continue. That the whole problem with the Puerto Rican political prisoners obviously grows out of Puerto Rico’s political status. Of course, that’s why they’re in prison in the first place. But going further, they are being treated as mere criminals on the one hand and on the other they are indeed treated as political prisoners as can be observed in Clinton’s conditions. They are, as Puerto Ricans are in general, caught between being fundamentally Puerto Rican and conditionally American. Ideally, Clinton would strip them of their American citizenship and deport them to Puerto Rico. The problem of course is that some of them were born here in the States–not in Puerto Rico. That makes them traitors technically. The others who were born in Puerto Rico could be stripped of their American citizenship and deported. Clearly, this would establish Puerto Rico as a distinct country, separate from the U.S. Just as Juan Mari Bras established through the U.S. court system the fact that there indeed was a Puerto Rican citizenship separate from the American.
Connections
Why isn’t anybody drawing a connection between Vieques, the Puerto Rican political prisoners and the colonial status of Puerto Rico?
RE: RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
Let me try to make myself perfectly clear; The Independence party WANTS independence but does not count on any United States dollars.
The Commonwealth party wants independence but does NOT want to give up any United States dollars.
The Statehood party, deep inside wants independence too and WANTS to keep United States dollars. PERIOD.
And there you have it in a nutshell, simplistic perhaps but DEAD ON ACCURATE, and summarizes the political question of Puerto Rico.
RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
Free Association is not a new concept but one that has been long overlooked as the solution to the colonial status problem. There isn’t only two options the Puerto Ricam people has. Many politician and other figures will elude to the fact that it is either independence or statehood and nothing more. However, it must be taken in to account that not one nation is solely alone or independent. Nations trade and rely on exchange of goods and other items for economic gain and stability. If KIWI perhaps researches his information a bit more, Free Association gives Puerto Rico the opportunity to begin it’s road to sovernty by establishing it’s economic stability in order to compete with the global economy. I am not in favor of statehood because it is the final process to the genocide of my people. Independence has been distorted and romanticized. Colonialism now under common wealth prevents future growth of an economy by preventing the country to trade with other countries retarding any growth and advancements for the colonized country. Free Association is not the further conintuation of colonialism. Remember, colonialism does not allow trade with other foreign countries where as Free Association encourages trade with others creating the sturdy foundations for a truly sovern nation to flourish. One mus tlearn to swim before they can dive.
RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
Free Association is not a new concept
but one that has been long overlooked as
the solution to the colonial status
problem. There isn’t only two options
the Puerto Ricam people has. Many
politician and other figures will elude
to the fact that it is either
independence or statehood and nothing
more. However, it must be taken in to
account that not one nation is solely
alone or independent. Nations trade and
rely on exchange of goods and other
items for economic gain and stability.
If KIWI perhaps researches his
information a bit more, Free Association
gives Puerto Rico the opportunity to
begin it’s road to sovernty by
establishing it’s economic stability in
order to compete with the global economy
I am not in favor of statehood because
it is the final process to the genocide
of my people. Independence has been
distorted and romanticized. Colonialism
now under common wealth prevents future
growth of an economy by preventing the
country to trade with other countries
retarding any growth and advancements
for the colonized country. Free
Association is not the further
conintuation of colonialism. Remember,
colonialism does not allow trade with
other foreign countries where as Free
Association encourages trade with
others creating the sturdy foundations
for a truly sovern nation to flourish.
One mus tlearn to swim before they can
dive.
Political Status – Stateside PRs
I’ve been getting quite a lesson on this subject in the last year or so. It is my understanding that the position of the U.S. Congress is that under an independence decision, we would all have a choice on citizenship, with dual citizenship not being an option. Given this situation, if you live in the States your choice of citizenship could make you either a foreign national or a US citizen.
This situation is very troubling to me, since I put great emotional value on being a Puerto Rican “citizen” (although, technically I’m not since I don’t live there) and in being an American citizen.
I don’t think I could stomach the idea of being a “foreign national” when I go to visit my family in Puerto Rico, if I were to choose to be an “American” citizen.
If I chose to be a Puerto Rican citizen, I probably would have to relocate to the Island, as it would not make much sense living here on a resident visa, or similar status, over the long term. Maybe there are many others like me. If so, you could probably expect another great reverse migration, like the one that occurred during the 1970’s.
I think many of us living in the States rationalize our situation by the fact that Puerto Rico is, after all, a part of the U.S., and so the dual nature of our existence is O.K. by virtue of this fact. The dual nature I speak of is being bi-cultural, bi-lingual, etc. We need the connection to the Island, particularly since we are often treated as being something less than “real” Americans. The fact that the Island is part of the U.S. somehow legitimizes our “American-ness”. Or maybe not; am I the only one that feels this way?
RE: RE: On language and culture…
I’m a newcomer to this forum, so excuse the tardiness of this response. I too want to applaud you. You deal with the reality of our situation. Many people responding to this forum speak in platitudes. We need more honest responses and less theoretical diatribes.
RE: Political Status – Stateside PRs
Well, I think there are hard choices to be made. I, for one, having been born and raised in the United States see myself as an American who is of Puerto Rican descent. And although I believe, as the UN charter has established for decolonization of a country, that all those of Puerto Rico and of Puerto Rican descent should be included in any vote on the future of their land, I would still defer to the Puerto Ricans who are living on the island. They will be impacted by the whole push towards independence, statehood or continued colonial status, not I. Since I only visit Puerto Rico two or three times a year, I am sort of a visitor and sort of
a “foreign national,” as you call it. That’s okay since it’s just an idea or a label. I don’t think that it really has much impact in real terms. However, if Puerto Rico were to become a state, get ready for some real substantial changes to that country.
So, I would say that you, in your dual condition or ambivalences, basically reflect the colonial condition of Puerto Rico and the Puerto Rican people as a colonized people. I don’t know if this helps. What do you say?
RE: La cuestion nacional…
A mi me parece que la cuestion nacional es de mas importancia a los puertorriqueños de la isla que a los de la diaspora. Se puede ver en la primera discusion sobre diferencias lo que piensan algunos que viven stateside. Desean que Puerto Rico sea estado para que ellos puedan sentirse un poquito mas iquales con los americanos. Un senor que estaba en el hopital me dijo que queria que Puerto Rico se haga estado para que pueda tener sus food stamps en la isla. Para los food stamps el daria la patria. Pues todos tenemos nuestros razones. A mi me gustaria hablar sobre la cuestion nacional. Pero lo que sigo pensando es como es posible que nosotros todavia somos colonia? Y como es posible que hayan algunos que quieran continuar esta condicion?
Re: Free Association: Puerto Rico
You make a point in saying that Free Association is not new. It isn’t. For Puerto Rico, it has existed as a Free Associated State since 1948. And yes, we have heard the argument about slowly becoming autonomous, to the point of independence. Unfortunately, we’ve only been integrated into the American economy. How would that be different if we were independent? I asked this because statehood for me is not an option. It means the annihilation of Puerto Rico as a people. And people who support statehood, whether they be far right or left, are basically pursuing this agenda. Ask the Hawaiians and the Alaskans. On this we agree. Free Association has remarkably more than one life and, having failed in the latter part of the 20th century, is being brought as a new and improved byproduct of its predecessor. I can only see Free Association as a transitional stage to independence. Independence will be a long and slow process of disengagement–I daresay it might take another century!
RE: RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
I agree that Puerto Rico must be free–that is, independent. The road it will take to achieve this seems to be at issue here. One of the actions Puerto Rico will have to take, after a period of disengagement, in which its agriculture and certain industries are developed, and perhaps parallell with these developments, is to establish its own currency. It will absolutely have to do this in order not to be a colony and under U.S. jurisdiction. And the Free Association people argue maintaining the U.S. currency. This is not possible it Puerto Rico is to be free. I remember reading a very early posting that stated—and I’m paraphrasing: The contributor said that they would rather have Puerto Rico become another Santo Domingo than another Florida or Mississippi. I agree. I know this is a bitter pill to swallow. But I also believe that Puerto Rico’s condition can not be seen outside of a global–Third World context. And I believe that Puerto Rico will have to indeed struggle along with other members of the Third World, whether they be its more successful brothers and sisters or less successful ones to reach a parity with the seven wealthy nations. And perhaps it never will–just as it does not have that parity now.
RE: Connections
Srta. Smit is correct to identify the connection between the situation in Vieques, the colonial status of the Island and the PR political prisoners.
Personally, I believe that President Clinton did the right thing in offering them clemency on the condition that they renounce violence. Their activities still constitute terrorism in my eyes and I don’t believe they served the cause of PR decolonization in the least.
The major obstacle to a resolution of the Island’s political status is NOT the President or the Congress. It is the leadership of the Popular Democratic Party and their partners in Congress: Gutierrez and Velazquez. They insist that Island residents have the best of both worlds through Commonwealth. Commonwealth is institutionlized inferiority and political slavery! Why is first class citizenship, voting representation in Congress and the Presidential vote good enough for Congressman Guiterrez and Congresswoman Velazquez, and NOT for our friends and families on the Island? Isn’t that hypocrisy?
RE: Connections
Srta. Smit is correct to identify the connection between the situation in Vieques, the colonial status of the Island and the PR political prisoners.
Personally, I believe that President Clinton did the right thing in offering them clemency on the condition that they renounce violence. Their activities still constitute terrorism in my eyes and I don’t believe they served the cause of PR decolonization in the least.
The major obstacle to a resolution of the Island’s political status is NOT the President or the Congress. It is the leadership of the Popular Democratic Party and their partners in Congress: Gutierrez and Velazquez. They insist that Island residents have the best of both worlds through Commonwealth. Commonwealth is institutionlized inferiority and political slavery! Why is first class citizenship, voting representation in Congress and the Presidential vote good enough for Congressman Guiterrez and Congresswoman Velazquez, and NOT for our friends and families on the Island? Isn’t that hypocrisy?
Puerto Rico’s Political Status
I am a Jesuit priest presently completing my doctoral thesis on Puerto Rico’s political status. It has been an education and very fascinating to trace the political, social and cultural implications of a separate Puerto Rican nation or a State of Puerto Rico.
As I studied many of the recent deliberations, especially those that revolved around the Young Bill and a Congressionally sponsored plebiscite-I identified a number of crucial points made by various leaders on this issue.
One of my conclusions will be that FINAL resolution to the political status of the Island will only occur when their is a Congressionally sponsored plebiscite with only two options-independence or statehood. I agree the present Commonwealth status is colonial in nature and needs to be dismantled.
Secondly, those that believe Puerto Rico is a separate nation culturally and linguistically are presenting false choices to the public. In some of my interviews with various activists on this issue, I have noticed that many of the strongest supporters of Independence claim that only a separate nation can maintain its cultural heritage through the exclusive use of Spanish. When I asked some of these activists if they considered themselves Puerto Rican even though they did not speak Spanish well-they said YES! I also noticed during some of my interviews on the Island with Popular Democratic Party supporters that most of them were bilingual and cherished their US citizenship? So, I asked them why was it okay for them to learn English in private schools on the Island, including our Jesuit high school, Colegio San Ignacio, and not the rest of the Islands students? The response was usually stunned silence!
One of my conclusions will be that a State of Puerto Rico is a real possibility and could contribute a grea deal-as it already has-to the cultural, social and economic life of the Nation.
I will also be arguing that the only two options with any political dignity are statehood and independence. As a Puerto Rican Jesuit told me: “It’s time to end our political courtship with the U.S. We should marry or break off our engagement.”
on the wrong path
Well, to base your assessment of the preservation of Puerto Rican culture on the conversations you may have had with some independistas in the United States who were of Puerto Rican heritage and some members of the PPD who spoke English is really inadequate and disingenous. The reality is that American history is full of examples of Hispanic states that lost their culture and language when they were absorbed into the Union. This is fact. This is in violation of the Treaty of Guadalupe, signed between Mexico and the U.S. after the Mexican American War. In California, for example, Californios were supposed to be allowed to continue their customs. All laws were to be promulgated in Spanish and English. This was never implemented. America’s past and present point to the dissipation and/or elimination of the cultures that are other than Anglo-American–beginning with the loss of language. The fact that someone may consider themselves Puerto Rican does not mean that they know anything about Puerto Rican culture. They may be referring solely to their “ethnic” background the way an Italo-American or Irish American might. The fact that members of the PPD who, I guess, had attended private school learned how to speak English and were silent in allegedly in reaction to question is meaningless. They never responded. What did you interpret this to mean. It could only be an interpretation since they never stated anything. And from this silence which you have interpreted a certain way, you’ve reached an empty conclusion.
What would the U.S. gain that it already does not have in Puerto Rico’s colonial condition? This is the question that must be raised.
RE: on the wrong path
The US would gain its dignity as a democratic society that puts its action where it puts its words. The US cannot claim to be the showcase of democracy of the world when it keeps PR under a colonial boot. Colonialism is the antithesis of democracy.
Furthermore, when you consider that the exercise in colonialism is being performed against American citizens, you can only conclude that this is ridiculous. Puerto Rico is inhabitet by American citizens without full congressional representation and without any participation in the voting for the President.
So, it is not only what the US would gain, Kiwi. The question is what the US must do to practice what it preaches.
Finally, the point made by Rev. Cotter is well made. The arguments against statehood in PR are very superficial and insignificant, because they are culturally oriented. The different cultural traits that abound throughout the US nation will continue to evolve and change. The will of the people will trace the cultural route and it is very difficult to rule against it, unless we become a totalitarian country.
Puerto Rico today is culturaly different than it was 50 years ago, and even more fifty years from now – statehood or not.
If laws pretending to control culture did not work in several states, thios only proves that culture cannot be controlled.
RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
The free association option will necessarily entail losing our American citizenship. A pact of free association can only be exercised between two sovereign nations. Once PR acquires its sovereignty, the US has to let us go as a territory. Right then and there, American citizenship is lost for those born from then on. The question is whether the US will allow us to retain such citizenship after we have rejected it.
With regards to your losing your “identity” after we become a state, when you are asked where you come from, I suppose you will say “from The USA!!!” No Jerry. You will say “Puerto Rico.”
RE: Re: Free Association: Puerto Rico
If statehood means the anihilation of Puerto Ricans, how come you ask us to ask Alaskans and Hawaiians?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
The important thing for you to do after we become independent is to move back here and suffer the consequences of your thoughts.
Independence
It is unfortunate, and sad too, that the fact that Puerto Rico is the only island in the Caribbean that has not obtained its independence is not an embarrassment to Estadistas; especially in light of the fact that the vast majority of North Americans do not want Puerto Rico as a state.
My American friends continually complain to me that when they visited Puerto Rico last, they did not feel that they were in a foreign land, the American influence was so strong. Retaining Spanish as a primary language will not be enough to uphold the integrity of the culture: Spanish can be spoken in McDonald’s and Pizza Hut, as easily as it can be spoken at a charming fonda.
RE: Independence
I find what you’re saying a little confusing. Why should Americans complain that they don’t feel like their in a foreign land when they’re in Puerto Rico? The U.S. has a virtual monopoly on what is bought and sold in Puerto Rico–American products. Ergo, they should feel at home since their objects occupy our space.
I agree that Spanish is but one factor among many in a culture’s character. It is an extremely important one. It is a necessary condition if there is to be a uniquely distinct identity and continuity with the history of Puerto Rico for over the past 500 years. You can’t supplant the Spanish language without radically affecting the people. Language is really the sieve through which we experience and express ourselves.
RE: RE: Independence
To Joni Arroyo:
The point of my comment on language is that all colonized peoples have had the privelege of speaking their native tongue, but yet they are not able to realize their true identies in spite of that. Without self determination and political control of one’s nation, the efficacy of language as a sustaining element of culture, never reaches its full potential — in effect, it is rendered impotent.
I am in no way suggesting that it is not of utmost importance in identity. I am saying that without its own political integrity, a nation cannot act on its collective mythology, its dreams, its aspirations.
My position on Spanish in Puerto Rico is that it should be the lingua franca; English should be secondary and voluntary, although English has and always will play a lea
RE: RE: RE: Independence
(This is a continuation of my comments dated April 10 which were lobbed off when the message was posted. The system designers are correcting this flaw.)
My position on Spanish in Puerto Rico is that it should be the lingua franca for the Island; English should be secondary and voluntary, although English has and always will play a leading role in world trade and international business transactions.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Independence
The only reason English is an issue in Puerto Rico is because it is the colony of an English-speaking nation that tried and continues to try to impose English as the language of the island in which case–you know what will happen. The island will truly become “Our land their people” except that the people would have vanished because they would nolonger be identifiable through their language and then gradually–even their customs and foods would fade to a TACO BELL type of packaged and processed American reality. Spanish is the language of the nation and if people want to learn English, French, Italian, Swahili, Chinese, Japanese, Hindi–they are more than welcome to. I for one would like to know how to speak Spanish better and then my next favorite would be Chinese. But this is to say–let us not mince words about Puerto Rican culture and identity. Culture and identity is directly tied into language in a profound psychological and social way.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Independence
Well then, what’s the problem? We’re still stuck with a century old colony. Where can we go from here? The way I see it, we’ll just continue in a limbo state–until, gradually, our history and culture disappear, then the U.S. will just swallow us up whole and Puerto Ricans won’t even know the difference. This is how we became American citizens. No one ever asked my mother if she wanted to become a citizen, she just woke up one day and discovered her national identity had changed.
On language and culture…
Well, Joni, I’m afraid that I’m a dyed in the wool optimist; but I realize that is one of my personalaity flaws.
What could happen is that Puerto Rican culture goes underground, just the way the Boriken did. Of course, the idea of culture is to be visible to the world, but an embattled culture often has no other choice. Culture can retreat back in to the collective consciousness. Perhaps there it can reconnect with its myth and become reenergized (read, politicized.)
P Pietri has some very interesting and beautiful verses on this idea of culture not perishing but flourishing in the collective consciousness. In that way, a people can be vanquish but their culture can never be truly extinguished. It just becomes less visible from an oppresor point of view. The good news is that oppressor cultures have a tendency to delude themselves that their power and authority penetrates more deeply than it actually does. Pietri uses this notion to bind autoctonic cultures together; regardless of whether their ancient cities are buried under millenia of overgrowth. We us, the collective consciousness goes even further — indigenous, African, and IberoCaribbean. There is no reason to perish –unless we want to.
RE: On culture…but…
Are we the only ones on this board? What’sup? Anyway, I think what you’ve said is really a cop out. The reality is that Boriken is a fiction, a myth– because the people have been annihilated. If you hold this up as the prospect for the future “underground” existence of our culture, I pity us. What you are actually saying is that we shall indeed become extinct–as the Taino has. Albeit their blood runs in our veins and their culture is definitely a part of Puerto Rican culture. Some of us look very Taino, but we must look hard at times to distinguish those features. The food we eat and our sweet temperament are traits I attribute to them. That dark copper-like skin tone that is not Mediterranean or African I also attribute to them. Funny, you should mention Pietri since I think he physically looks very Taino–albeit mixed with Spanish and African blood. But be this as it may. The oppressor does not have to delude himself because he is the oppressor. To be allowed to conduct our cultural rituals privately behind closed doors and in the shadow of their cultural hegemony, as the statehooders so shamefacedly proclaim for our future, is really to die as a culture and truly to become a subgroup, an ethnic minority in our own land. There is a long and rich precedence for this among the Hispanos of the Southwest of the U.S. and the Californios of California who really—who has ever really heard of any of these people? It took 100 years to forget them once their language use declined and as Gringos entered their lands seeking new opportunities. For me it is really a matter of risk. What we are willing to risk to join of very sad community of Third World countries who are being strangled by the seven developed nations or to allow ourselves to disappear into an industrial park of U.S. manufactured products. Thus being defined as a consumer, nothing more and nothing less.
PR’s status
Hey. you guys are consistently talking around the issue of Puerto Rico’s political status and how it affects us. Certainly our language and culture are directly affected. However, look at some of the other Latin American countries, they too suffer from the onslaught of American mercantilism and basically seem powerless to do anything about it. (If they are not welcoming it) I just happened to be on the NYC subway a fortnight ago and lo and behold! I caught sight of a trashed Ecuadoran newspaper! What a treat! I thought I’d see what films Ecuadorans are watching and to my dismay and consternation, they were watching the latest American films dubbed in Spanish. You can imagine how upset I was. I then looked high and low through the paper to see if there were any ads for Ecuadoran films. I found none. Well–? I say this as a way of pointing out that independence is only the beginning not the final solution to our problems. It will in fact present us with a whole new set of problems: That of being imperialized in a different way–oops!–forgive me, I believe people these days are using the word globalized, as if this were a good thing. Well–I always ask, who’s globalizing who? Or should I say whom?
?Quien esta globalizando a quien?
On culture: all is not lost…
Joni,
1. The press announcing this site has not gone out yet. It’s brand new; only a small number are aware of it. SPREAD THE WORD.
2. eMail Judy Escalona: she’ll tell you more about the concept.
Your thoughts are pretty powerful. We do not quite have the same perspective, but I’m not sure there is a fundamental difference in what we have to say.
Puerto Rico is in chronic oppression; the culture is in decline; the future for the Island and its culture appears dim.
Although I brand myself as an optimist, I do recognize one important difference between Puerto Rico of today and the cultures you refer to. Each of them may have reached its apogee before decline or being vanquished from the outside.
Puerto Rican culture has never reached a high point — clearly because we have been colonized for 500 years. My point, and we may differ on this, is that culture is never completely extinguishable. My scenario that the culture may go underground and reconnect with its “life-giving” myth is not a proposal. It is a description of a scenario that might be a natural defense — dormancy or playing possum, until it can gather enough strength to throw off the yoke of colonialism. I don’t like it one bit, but with a “diaspora” that includes an intellectual and activist community (including the generation that has had no direct link with the Island), the underground culture can serve as the fountain to draw new life from. But I repeat, even this cannot happen without a political will for self determination.
RE: Vieques and PR’s political status
This past Monday un señor from the
island of Vieques, which is part of
Puerto Rico, a man by the name of David
Sanet died and four others were injured
during a military exercise involving the
dropping of two bombs by a US F-18
aircraft! The governor and the
leadership of the other parties have
reacted by demanding that these military
exercises be stopped. We shall see.
For over twenty years the people on the
island have been fighting to get the U.S
Navy out of Vieques. They set up a naval base there in the 40’s, the Roosevelt Roads Naval Base. The base and its maneuvers destroyed the fishing industry of the island and caused the overall decline of the population. 20% of the Vieques population suffer from cancers directly connected with military practices, according to Dr. Rafael Rivera Castaño who conducted a study.
This is an example of how Puerto Ricans
on the island are affected by their
politcal status. They are petitioning
the President of the United States and
hope for a response. What do you think?
El Islam es la unica solucion para PR
La cultura de cada pais es una suma total de todo lo qe le haya cultivado en
su formacion socio-cultural. Aquella “cultura”, legitima, digna de sobreviviencia entre las expresiones culturales, debera estar en un constante
proceso de cultivo floreciente. Solo asi podra ser llamda una cultura
“culta”. Aquellas personas que digan ser “cultas” o bien instruidas tendra
que estar en un constante consistente cultivo sano, internao, dentro de sus
ciudadanos lo cual se vera visiblemenete dentro de sus expresiones
culturales. Una cultura estancada y atrazada, come tanbien aquellas personas
y miembros de un pueblo, en semjante condicion cultural, tarde o temprano,
llega a su ruina al no ser que sea universal, reanimondose de nuevo.
“Dios no cambia, ni para el bien ni para el mal, la condicion de un pueblo,
hasta que ellos no se cambien y transformen ellos mismos!” dice el Dios del cielo y la tierra en su ultima revelacion “El Coran”. El judeocristianismo ha enganado a Latino America con su misterio trinitario. El Islam es la unica solucion para PR.
El PIP envolucrado con una idiologia que no ha logrado nada (Socialismo)
nunca sera respetada por los Boricuas ni los Yankees de la Isla.
(escrito por un Mosulman Boricua, que nacio y a vivido en PR)
Umar
RE: El Islam no es la unica solucion para PR
Yo me sorpriendo en enterarme de esta solucion. El tratamiento de mujeres en el mundo Islamico no es algo que se puede imponer a la mujer puertorriquena. La Cultura Puertorriquena se ha desarrollado en una manera que le ha dado a las mujeres mas derechos y eso no se puede eliminar. Lo que es necesario es buscar unos remedios que son afuera del dogma religioso y politico.
PR’s political status
Por mi parte, I think this topic is tired. Puerto Rico’s colonial condition and its ultimate absorption into the U.S. as a state is a done deal. It’s really a question and matter of when? It may take another hundred years, but Puerto Rico will become a state and resolve the ambivalent feelings we have about ourselves and other Americans.
RE: PR’s political status
Puede ser que tu tengas razón. Sin embargao, me resisto a creer que “la suerte está hechada.” Es decir, creo que tu posicion es demasiado conformista cuando la discusión sobre el destino de Puerto Rico está aun en las manos de los Puertoriqueños. Más aun, creo que el tema de la libertad y la autodeterminación concierne fundamentalmente a quienes carecen de ella. La idea es, entonces, asumirnos no-libres y alcanzar un consenso sobre cómo llegar a serlo. No crees?
The Special Commission on Vieques
It seems, after all, that the Viequenses will be vindicated. Their struggle has been continuous and now a commission consisting of people with diverse ideologies have all come to the conclusion that the U.S. Navy should get out of Vieques. And what next? The governor now must go to the President of the U.S. and appeal to him to do the right thing and pull our troops out. If not–what then? Well this speaks volumes to me about our colonial status. The Puerto Ricans in the U.S. should be pressuring the president and Congress to get the Navy out and pay reparation for the damage done plus the development/restoration of that land and its people.
Free Association: Puerto Rico’s Destiny
Contrary to popular assumptions, Puerto Rico’s status is far from being a “done” deal in favor of any of the three traditional status options. In fact, as demonstrated by the Young Bill and the last island plebiscite, both US legislators and Puerto Rican civil society are looking for new solutions that avoid the traditional schizophrenic extremities inherent in current status options: ie, full assimilation as a state, complete separation under an outdated, 19th century definition of independence, or colonial subservience as a territory. All along, Puerto Ricans in the United States have been kept out of the status debate, in an artificial attempt to divide and conquer the Puerto Rican vote. However, times are changing, and new solutions are increasingly being advocated that take into account the complexity of the Puerto Rican experience. One such potential solution is Free Association, which would in fact, create a treaty of cooperation between the United States and Puerto Rico thereby explicitly returning sovereignty to the Puerto Rican people, while still sharing sovereignty with the United States in areas of common interest (ie, Common citizenship, defense, currency, and market), thereby ensuring that Puerto Rico does not become victim to the same neocolonial plagues that have caused economic and political havoc in many of our neighboring countries. While this is a very truncated definition of Free Association, those interested may visit our site at http://www.puertorico2000.com for further information.
Oh yes, and in regards to the original question: Puerto Rico’s status directly affects Puerto Ricans on the mainland, economically, psychologically, and socioculturally. Afterall, our continued existence as “Puerto Ricans” is predicated on the continued existence of a separate political and sociocultural entity known as Puerto Rico. Conversely, its tragic disappearance as a state would imply our “disappearance” as well, an act to which we have not granted consent. Afterall, the arms and limbs of the Puerto Rican nation can not exist if its heart is excised and stops beating.
RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
I really like your spirit and uabashed faith in this “new” alternative you believe you have embarked upon. I have gone to your website and will withold my views for another time and instead address this “new” direction you so strongly advocate for. “Free Association” is not new but a rehashing of the old concept of “Free Associated State” which Puerto Rico already is.
If you think independence is an old notion, think again. There really are only two alternatives: independence or statehood. The arrangement you call for–which actually already exists–is a continuation of Puerto Rico colonial condition. And although you believe you will avoid the pitfalls of neocolonialistic independence, your proposal actually places Puerto Rico squarely in a neocolonial situation which it is trying to avoid. You also think you will avoid the “cultural issues” connected with statehood, but not so. Upon closer examination the piecemeal destruction of Puerto Rican culture is guaranteed in maintaining common citizenship. The real issue is whether non-Puerto Rican Americans in Puerto Rico would share the interest of Puerto Ricans, not how Puerto Ricans when in the U.S. would be treated. Although this is a separate and equally important concern. Think of Hawaii and the Dole family. Did they have the interest of the native Hawaiian population at heart? Not at all. Independence does not necessarily mean an antagonistic or hostile relation to the United States–not at all. But if it came to that, so be it. Nationhood is not negotiable. It is what it is–the heart, to use your expression. If you take nationhood away, there is nothing to discuss, debate or fight for. That is at the crux of what is going on in Vieques.
Sure colonialism rears its ugly head in the form of neocolonialism but the reality is that the “struggle,” if one can call it that, is precisely taking this form. I myself would rather have Puerto Rico become a kind of Santo Domingo or Mexico than a Florida or a California. Enough for now. Thank you for your honesty
RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
I like you kiwi, but what kind of a name is that? Anyway, I think you’re right in saying the condition of NEOCOLONIALISM expresses the real world divisions between the rich industrial countries and the poor semi-industrial or rural countries. I think technology will factor in and bring an expansion of consumerism but we’re really looking at the same basic situation.
Anyway, I think both of you, Maldonado being the other, are seeking answers in the wrong places. You kind of remain idealists–intellectuals debating possibility after possibility. What is real is the pressure that must develop on the island (and which definitely exists) to push Congress into freeing Puerto Rico. The question should not be independence or statehood, but rather what kind of independence. No shared currency because we know what that really disguises and no shared citizenship although Puerto Ricans should be given dual citizenship or some sort of U.S. citizenship which fades out in the third generation after independence is established. And there are other formulations I won’t go into.
But I do want to say lastly that Maldonado’s “Free Association” is not unlike, strangely and ironically enough, as that group of men who are calling for “Radical Democracy.” It is the petit bourgeios counterpart to the supposedly proletariat proposal.
RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
Well I am certainly glad to have triggered some responses, whether negative or positive, they both contribute to a new dialogue regarding potential new solutions to Puerto Rico’s status problem.
That being said, it is critical for us to escape old cliches and generalizations. Free Association is not a “rehashing” of the current Commonwealth status, nor is it the same thing disguised in new clothes. The basic, funamental difference is that under Free Association, Puerto Rico would no longer be a territory of the United States, bound by the Constitution’s territorial clause which grants Congress plenary powers over the island. This is a fundamental political and juridical difference which returns political sovereignty to the hands of the Puerto Rican people. I invite you to explore the political and economic implications of this distinction in any future research that you may embark upon.
In addition, in response to Mr. Arroyo’s comments regarding citizenship and currency, we do share some points of agreement and some differences. First of all, we do believe in dual citizenship, US and Puerto Rican citizenship. Those individuals who do not want US citizenship, of course, would of course have the right to renounce it under Free Association, thereby holding Puerto Rican citizenship alone. However, we disagree with any “phase out” plan, since such a plan is unconstitutional and would violate individuals’ vested citizenship rights which are protected by the 5th and 14th Ammendments. No Puerto Rican can or should be deprived of his or her citizenship rights under any status, whether it be Commonwealth, Free Association, or Independence unless he or she willingly renounces such rights as established by international law. Finally, we should be cautious when we talk about currency so as not to paint an overly idealized version of independence. Simply look at the East Asian Tiger’s recent economic turmoil which resulted in the sharp devaluation of their local currencies and caused enormous political and economic chaos. Such devaluation makes independent countries subject to the neocolonial control of new international institutions such as the World Bank or the IMF. In addition, it is important to note that many countries now have a common currency, most importantly of which is the European Union. In addition, strong independent countries, such as Argentina who recognize the importance of having a strong currency, have recently considered “dollarizing” their economies, in order to prevent the continuation of devaluation and destabilization pressures surging from an increasingly competitive global economic environment.
Finally, we invite all of your readers to visit our new website on July 25th. While we do not pretend to try to convince those with their own, personal convictions, we do strive to create a more educated electorate. One that votes with both their hearts and their minds and is committed to the reconstruction of Puerto Rican society. If that is Utopian, so be it.
RE: Pathetic promotion
It’s kind of pathetic how you are trying to promote your website on this discussion board. You really didn’t address the distinction made by kiwi smit (what kind of name is this?) about non-Puerto Rican Americans on the island being sympathetic to Puerto Rican or North American interests a la Tejas (know your history). Also you don’t look at the question of the loss of Puerto Rican culture. Mind you–the entire world is interdependent. So what? The question is whose globalizing whom and what can be done about it? You don’t seem to want to look at the unavoidable condition of NEOCOLONIALISM. You want to talk about constitutional rights of Puerto Ricans but the reality is that Congress has established that Puerto Ricans are only American citizens in a statutory way so that citizenship can be taken away. This is on the Congressional record. Check it out. Also Juan Mari Bras has already renounced his American citizenship (along with several others) and have legally established that there is a nation of Puerto Rico and therefore a Puerto Rican citizenship that can not be disenfranchised on the island. This has already happened.
RE: RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
So many issues, so many issues… It should be noted that the island of Puerto Rico was headed towards full autonomy before that flower was nipped in the bud just over 100 years ago. I think that once again autonomy is the answer… I think that the island got a bad hand in terms of it’s fusion with the west. The name of the city is the name of the island. The name of the island is the name of the city. The seal for the island is a lamb in submissive pose. Weren’t lambs used for sacrifice somewhere… How come other countries get powerful symbols like lions, eagles, and snakes?
The island needs to grow up, it hasn’t been given this chance in over 500 years. I’m one who thinks that we should forge ahead on our own, like a full grown ram charging into the unknown… I don’t know enough about: Free Association, but I know that statehood is not the answer for me.
RE: RE: Pathetic promotion
I will give it up to Rosello today, even though they are for his 51 interests… I read that he has asked that Puerto Rico be returned to the United Nations list of colonial dependencies.
RE: RE: Pathetic promotion
Increible! Tanto que hablan de la necesidad de “preservar nuestra cultura” y del “neocolonialismo”, pero nadie escribe en Espanol! Dejense de enganarse. El neocolonialismo es un “issue” mundial que impacta a paises independientes tanto como a nuestro Puerto Rico actual. Si lo que buscan es alguna formula de independencia magica o perfecta capaz de solucionar todos los problemas de Puerto Rico, esperenla. Mientras tanto,hay que seguir luchando para buscar nuevas soluciones, tales como la Libre Asociacion propuesta por el Sr. Maldonado y otros lideres autonomistas en Puerto Rico.
Lo nuevo y lo viejo
Senores y senoras, ustedes creen que su propuesta es nueva o que se tiene que seguir en busqueda para algunas “nuevas soluciones.” Senores, cojan un momento y leen el “thread” de la discusion. Se puede ver alli que ustedes no estan escuchando uno al otro, mas que — como dicen los americanos — engaging in a shouting match. Ustedes deben de tratar a responder a las cuestiones que se han presentado, especialemente si creen convertir a sus compatriotas al Libre Asociacion. Me parece que ustedes no se respetan.
Llamar algo nuevo o viejo es decir nada. El concepto de autonomia empezo con los espanoles. No se enganen. Autonomia es el mas viejo “alternativa” que se ha presentado. Hay varias clases de autonomia, por supuesto, pero es autonomia. Lo que tenemos en Puerto Rico hoy en dia es una clase de autonomia aunque ustedes que creen en la propuesta “nueva” del Libre Asociacion quieren sugerirnos que su idea es unica. En verdad, no es unica y no es nueva.
Hay una viejita nacionalista que vive en Queens, que tiene como noventa y pico anos. Ella sobrevivio el Masacre de Ponce. Habla con ella es algo muy educativa. La distincion que ella hace, cuando le hablan del futuro de Puerto Rico es que muchos que debaten esto no dara su vida para el pueblo o la nacion de Puerto Rico y tamibien ninguno de ellos dara su vida por sus creencias.
Piensalo bien. Y traten escuchar mas que hablar. Leer y entender mas que escribir.
Puerto Rico Commemorates History
From: The Associated Press
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) – Thousands of Puerto Ricans on Sunday commemorated the 101st anniversary of the American invasion of Puerto Rico and 47 years as a free associated state of the United States.
Thousands of people gathered in the southern town of Guanica, where U.S.
soldiers invaded the Caribbean Spanish colony on July 25, 1898.
People who want Puerto Rico to become the 51st U.S. state marked the day as a
celebration. Mayor Edwin Galarza called it “the day that democracy arrived
through this municipality.”
Independence leaders saw the anniversary as the start of a “colonial condition” with the United States, independence supporter Jose Enrique Ayoroa Santaliz said during a rally.
Independence supporters also rallied against the U.S. Navy’s military
exercises on the inhabited island of Vieques, where a civilian guard was
killed in April by two 500-pound bombs dropped off target. A presidential
panel is investigating the Navy’s operations.
Meanwhile, commonwealth supporters in the northern town of Hatillo celebrated
the 47th anniversary of Congress’ decision to give the island its current
status as a Free Associated State, or commonwealth, with tax-exempt privileges.
Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens but do not pay federal taxes, do not have a
voting U.S. Congress member and cannot vote for president.
RE: On language and culture…
I have to say that the more I read, the more I am for independence…
freewrite from Los Angeles:
Independence will finally make everyone choose what they really want… Statehooders should realize that they must gain the approval of the congress after they win the plebicite… and what I always say is:
Are the citizens of the United States ready to incorporate a group of people that will have more weight in the house of representatives than at least half the states that are in the union currently?
I don’t think so…
Also, why are we not looking at the mess in Canada between the english and the french speakers? They have tried to do this together for over 100 years and Quebecois independence is an issue that continues to mount.
Something else: When the United States incorporated the Hawaiian Islands, immigrants outnumbered locals. The immigrants were from: The United States… of course the vote for statehood would be a sure thing. When Tejano independence was declared, it was by a group of immigrants from the United States… People who agreed to move into Mexican territory; people who then refused to cooperate with Mexican authority. Texas was incorporated after it’s short lived experiment. To date, territories that have been absorbed by the Union have had a large influx of settlers. This has not really happened in Puerto Rico…. yet.
Independence strikes a deep cord in my heart… am I ready to go and support my island? Are any of the Boricuas that live here ready? We are scared into what is tried and true… my grandparents generation are currently enjoying the benefits of social security. Why would they want independence? I have cousins that have never been to the island… they don’t have any connection to it. Do they care? What is their culture? Some of us are Puerto Rican-American, some of us are American of Puerto Rican decent… What is a first generation Puerto Rican at this point? Some would say that he is a United Stater. (We need to come up with a word different than American, since we all are…)What does the Danish-American person who grew up in Puerto Rico say she is? Is Salma Hayek Mexican?
Independence would be like an electric current thru the veins of anyone who cared… people would have to be black and white about their choice. Choosing has been made very hard for us because we have had the liberty to move without fronteras. It’s like opium… we are left in a haze… it’s easier to sit back and take another toke…
Puerto Ricans Take Washington by Storm
Puerto Ricans Take Washington by Storm, Demand: Freedom for Political Prisoners
Navy Out of Vieques
WASHINGTON, D.C. – More than 500 Puerto Ricans and supporters took Washington, D.C. by storm to demand the immediate resolution of the case calling for the
release of the Puerto Rican political prisoners and the departure of the US
Navy from the island of Vieques.
“The group held a series of activities on July 22 and 23 with this purpose,”
said Juan Marcos Vilar, national coordinator of the National Committee to
Free Puerto Rican Prisoners of War and Political Prisoners (National Committee). “All said and done, we had the lobbying effort which contacted
more than sixty legislators, the picket of the hearings regarding Vieques,
the White House visit by a delegation of friends and relatives of the prisoners, the demonstration with more than 500 people in front of the White House, the press conference, the act of civil disobedience, and the religious service in Lafayette Park represent a new level of militancy and struggle for the campaign. We succeeded in penetrating the circle of power in Washington,” he added.
On Thursday, July 22, more than 50 congressional representatives and 10
senators were visited. During the visits the situation of the prisoners was
discussed, along with the hope that President Clinton would soon approve the
petition for their release. The legislators were also asked to write letters to the President in support of the prisoners‚ release. As a direct result of the visits several important congresspersons committed themselves to write to the President.
Until now, 12 congressional representatives, including the three Puerto Ricans, Rep. Nydia Velazquez (D-NY), Rep. José Serrano (D-NY), and Luis V. Gutierrez (D-IL), have written to President Clinton in support of their
release.
While some delegations continued their visits with legislators on the morning
of July 23, about 50 protesters gathered in Arlington, Virginia, in front of the building where the hearings about the case of Vieques were being held. The protesters, led by a strong contingent from the Orlando chapter of the National Committee, picketed the hearings for three and a half hours and were interviewed by several news media.
At noon a political and cultural act began at Lafayette Park, across the
street from the White House, where hundreds gathered from Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Pennsylvania and other states.
RE: RE: On language and culture…
You make a lot of sense. I applaud you and respect your honesty in saying that the more you delve into this matter, the more you see independence as the only real alternative. Good for you -C.
La cuestion nacional…
LA CUESTION NACIONAL, LA DIASPORA BORICUA Y LA CUESTION ANTICOLONIAL HOY
Ya es hora de profundizar una vez mas sobre nuestra cuestion nacional en el
contexto de nuestra situacion diasporica i.e. mas de la mitad de la poblacion
boricua vive y vivira fuera del terruño isleño. En dicho contexto se debe
polemizar sobre la relacion entre la economia local de Puerto Rico y la de
los EEUU; y las implicaciones de esto ultimo en cuanto a la globalizacion, el
fin de el colonialismo, y el significado de la autodeterminacion con respecto
a las clases socialesy fragmentos nacionales y de clase que comprenden la
diaspora boricua.
PEYO1
P.S. Estoy dispuesto a proveer espacio para dicha discusion en el espacio
auditivo de CARIMBOFM aqui en EL Barrio.
Clinton, the PRPP’s and PR’s political status
Funny, how conversation on a subject can just die when things really get hot. You’d expect more not less and yet… Clinton’s move is of course political. He has found a way of saying okay he will pardon the Puerto Rican political prisoners but only if they admit or accept conditions that are completely unacceptable: They must admit to wrongdoing and criminal acts, they are forbidden to associate with other independentistas (what about their families and friends?), they must renounce violence and the use of violence as a viable political tool, etc. Now how are they going to respond to these conditions and others? If they accept them, then everything they have worked for and suffered for has been in vain–its worthless. Their actions are nolonger great acts or gestures in pursuit of freedom but just criminal and random acts of violence. Most of these men and women have already served about 15 to 20 years for seditious conspiracy and other counts. Why would they have spent that time in prison. Why did they declare themselves prisoners of war and why did they not defend themselves during their trials, taking the position that the U.S. courts lack jurisdiction over them. Clinton is attempting to circumvent their political statement and actions–while still looking good. Afterall, he did grant them a pardon. He’s put the ball in their court but it is already a very restricted game. Prolibertad said it will support any of their decisions. But I think they should stand firm in their beliefs and we should work harder to get them out–unconditionally.
RE: Clinton, the PRPP
Also I just wanted to continue. That the whole problem with the Puerto Rican political prisoners obviously grows out of Puerto Rico’s political status. Of course, that’s why they’re in prison in the first place. But going further, they are being treated as mere criminals on the one hand and on the other they are indeed treated as political prisoners as can be observed in Clinton’s conditions. They are, as Puerto Ricans are in general, caught between being fundamentally Puerto Rican and conditionally American. Ideally, Clinton would strip them of their American citizenship and deport them to Puerto Rico. The problem of course is that some of them were born here in the States–not in Puerto Rico. That makes them traitors technically. The others who were born in Puerto Rico could be stripped of their American citizenship and deported. Clearly, this would establish Puerto Rico as a distinct country, separate from the U.S. Just as Juan Mari Bras established through the U.S. court system the fact that there indeed was a Puerto Rican citizenship separate from the American.
Connections
Why isn’t anybody drawing a connection between Vieques, the Puerto Rican political prisoners and the colonial status of Puerto Rico?
RE: RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
Let me try to make myself perfectly clear; The Independence party WANTS independence but does not count on any United States dollars.
The Commonwealth party wants independence but does NOT want to give up any United States dollars.
The Statehood party, deep inside wants independence too and WANTS to keep United States dollars. PERIOD.
And there you have it in a nutshell, simplistic perhaps but DEAD ON ACCURATE, and summarizes the political question of Puerto Rico.
RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
Free Association is not a new concept but one that has been long overlooked as the solution to the colonial status problem. There isn’t only two options the Puerto Ricam people has. Many politician and other figures will elude to the fact that it is either independence or statehood and nothing more. However, it must be taken in to account that not one nation is solely alone or independent. Nations trade and rely on exchange of goods and other items for economic gain and stability. If KIWI perhaps researches his information a bit more, Free Association gives Puerto Rico the opportunity to begin it’s road to sovernty by establishing it’s economic stability in order to compete with the global economy. I am not in favor of statehood because it is the final process to the genocide of my people. Independence has been distorted and romanticized. Colonialism now under common wealth prevents future growth of an economy by preventing the country to trade with other countries retarding any growth and advancements for the colonized country. Free Association is not the further conintuation of colonialism. Remember, colonialism does not allow trade with other foreign countries where as Free Association encourages trade with others creating the sturdy foundations for a truly sovern nation to flourish. One mus tlearn to swim before they can dive.
RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
Free Association is not a new concept
but one that has been long overlooked as
the solution to the colonial status
problem. There isn’t only two options
the Puerto Ricam people has. Many
politician and other figures will elude
to the fact that it is either
independence or statehood and nothing
more. However, it must be taken in to
account that not one nation is solely
alone or independent. Nations trade and
rely on exchange of goods and other
items for economic gain and stability.
If KIWI perhaps researches his
information a bit more, Free Association
gives Puerto Rico the opportunity to
begin it’s road to sovernty by
establishing it’s economic stability in
order to compete with the global economy
I am not in favor of statehood because
it is the final process to the genocide
of my people. Independence has been
distorted and romanticized. Colonialism
now under common wealth prevents future
growth of an economy by preventing the
country to trade with other countries
retarding any growth and advancements
for the colonized country. Free
Association is not the further
conintuation of colonialism. Remember,
colonialism does not allow trade with
other foreign countries where as Free
Association encourages trade with
others creating the sturdy foundations
for a truly sovern nation to flourish.
One mus tlearn to swim before they can
dive.
Political Status – Stateside PRs
I’ve been getting quite a lesson on this subject in the last year or so. It is my understanding that the position of the U.S. Congress is that under an independence decision, we would all have a choice on citizenship, with dual citizenship not being an option. Given this situation, if you live in the States your choice of citizenship could make you either a foreign national or a US citizen.
This situation is very troubling to me, since I put great emotional value on being a Puerto Rican “citizen” (although, technically I’m not since I don’t live there) and in being an American citizen.
I don’t think I could stomach the idea of being a “foreign national” when I go to visit my family in Puerto Rico, if I were to choose to be an “American” citizen.
If I chose to be a Puerto Rican citizen, I probably would have to relocate to the Island, as it would not make much sense living here on a resident visa, or similar status, over the long term. Maybe there are many others like me. If so, you could probably expect another great reverse migration, like the one that occurred during the 1970’s.
I think many of us living in the States rationalize our situation by the fact that Puerto Rico is, after all, a part of the U.S., and so the dual nature of our existence is O.K. by virtue of this fact. The dual nature I speak of is being bi-cultural, bi-lingual, etc. We need the connection to the Island, particularly since we are often treated as being something less than “real” Americans. The fact that the Island is part of the U.S. somehow legitimizes our “American-ness”. Or maybe not; am I the only one that feels this way?
RE: RE: On language and culture…
I’m a newcomer to this forum, so excuse the tardiness of this response. I too want to applaud you. You deal with the reality of our situation. Many people responding to this forum speak in platitudes. We need more honest responses and less theoretical diatribes.
RE: Political Status – Stateside PRs
Well, I think there are hard choices to be made. I, for one, having been born and raised in the United States see myself as an American who is of Puerto Rican descent. And although I believe, as the UN charter has established for decolonization of a country, that all those of Puerto Rico and of Puerto Rican descent should be included in any vote on the future of their land, I would still defer to the Puerto Ricans who are living on the island. They will be impacted by the whole push towards independence, statehood or continued colonial status, not I. Since I only visit Puerto Rico two or three times a year, I am sort of a visitor and sort of
a “foreign national,” as you call it. That’s okay since it’s just an idea or a label. I don’t think that it really has much impact in real terms. However, if Puerto Rico were to become a state, get ready for some real substantial changes to that country.
So, I would say that you, in your dual condition or ambivalences, basically reflect the colonial condition of Puerto Rico and the Puerto Rican people as a colonized people. I don’t know if this helps. What do you say?
RE: La cuestion nacional…
A mi me parece que la cuestion nacional es de mas importancia a los puertorriqueños de la isla que a los de la diaspora. Se puede ver en la primera discusion sobre diferencias lo que piensan algunos que viven stateside. Desean que Puerto Rico sea estado para que ellos puedan sentirse un poquito mas iquales con los americanos. Un senor que estaba en el hopital me dijo que queria que Puerto Rico se haga estado para que pueda tener sus food stamps en la isla. Para los food stamps el daria la patria. Pues todos tenemos nuestros razones. A mi me gustaria hablar sobre la cuestion nacional. Pero lo que sigo pensando es como es posible que nosotros todavia somos colonia? Y como es posible que hayan algunos que quieran continuar esta condicion?
Re: Free Association: Puerto Rico
You make a point in saying that Free Association is not new. It isn’t. For Puerto Rico, it has existed as a Free Associated State since 1948. And yes, we have heard the argument about slowly becoming autonomous, to the point of independence. Unfortunately, we’ve only been integrated into the American economy. How would that be different if we were independent? I asked this because statehood for me is not an option. It means the annihilation of Puerto Rico as a people. And people who support statehood, whether they be far right or left, are basically pursuing this agenda. Ask the Hawaiians and the Alaskans. On this we agree. Free Association has remarkably more than one life and, having failed in the latter part of the 20th century, is being brought as a new and improved byproduct of its predecessor. I can only see Free Association as a transitional stage to independence. Independence will be a long and slow process of disengagement–I daresay it might take another century!
RE: RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
I agree that Puerto Rico must be free–that is, independent. The road it will take to achieve this seems to be at issue here. One of the actions Puerto Rico will have to take, after a period of disengagement, in which its agriculture and certain industries are developed, and perhaps parallell with these developments, is to establish its own currency. It will absolutely have to do this in order not to be a colony and under U.S. jurisdiction. And the Free Association people argue maintaining the U.S. currency. This is not possible it Puerto Rico is to be free. I remember reading a very early posting that stated—and I’m paraphrasing: The contributor said that they would rather have Puerto Rico become another Santo Domingo than another Florida or Mississippi. I agree. I know this is a bitter pill to swallow. But I also believe that Puerto Rico’s condition can not be seen outside of a global–Third World context. And I believe that Puerto Rico will have to indeed struggle along with other members of the Third World, whether they be its more successful brothers and sisters or less successful ones to reach a parity with the seven wealthy nations. And perhaps it never will–just as it does not have that parity now.
RE: Connections
Srta. Smit is correct to identify the connection between the situation in Vieques, the colonial status of the Island and the PR political prisoners.
Personally, I believe that President Clinton did the right thing in offering them clemency on the condition that they renounce violence. Their activities still constitute terrorism in my eyes and I don’t believe they served the cause of PR decolonization in the least.
The major obstacle to a resolution of the Island’s political status is NOT the President or the Congress. It is the leadership of the Popular Democratic Party and their partners in Congress: Gutierrez and Velazquez. They insist that Island residents have the best of both worlds through Commonwealth. Commonwealth is institutionlized inferiority and political slavery! Why is first class citizenship, voting representation in Congress and the Presidential vote good enough for Congressman Guiterrez and Congresswoman Velazquez, and NOT for our friends and families on the Island? Isn’t that hypocrisy?
RE: Connections
Srta. Smit is correct to identify the connection between the situation in Vieques, the colonial status of the Island and the PR political prisoners.
Personally, I believe that President Clinton did the right thing in offering them clemency on the condition that they renounce violence. Their activities still constitute terrorism in my eyes and I don’t believe they served the cause of PR decolonization in the least.
The major obstacle to a resolution of the Island’s political status is NOT the President or the Congress. It is the leadership of the Popular Democratic Party and their partners in Congress: Gutierrez and Velazquez. They insist that Island residents have the best of both worlds through Commonwealth. Commonwealth is institutionlized inferiority and political slavery! Why is first class citizenship, voting representation in Congress and the Presidential vote good enough for Congressman Guiterrez and Congresswoman Velazquez, and NOT for our friends and families on the Island? Isn’t that hypocrisy?
Puerto Rico’s Political Status
I am a Jesuit priest presently completing my doctoral thesis on Puerto Rico’s political status. It has been an education and very fascinating to trace the political, social and cultural implications of a separate Puerto Rican nation or a State of Puerto Rico.
As I studied many of the recent deliberations, especially those that revolved around the Young Bill and a Congressionally sponsored plebiscite-I identified a number of crucial points made by various leaders on this issue.
One of my conclusions will be that FINAL resolution to the political status of the Island will only occur when their is a Congressionally sponsored plebiscite with only two options-independence or statehood. I agree the present Commonwealth status is colonial in nature and needs to be dismantled.
Secondly, those that believe Puerto Rico is a separate nation culturally and linguistically are presenting false choices to the public. In some of my interviews with various activists on this issue, I have noticed that many of the strongest supporters of Independence claim that only a separate nation can maintain its cultural heritage through the exclusive use of Spanish. When I asked some of these activists if they considered themselves Puerto Rican even though they did not speak Spanish well-they said YES! I also noticed during some of my interviews on the Island with Popular Democratic Party supporters that most of them were bilingual and cherished their US citizenship? So, I asked them why was it okay for them to learn English in private schools on the Island, including our Jesuit high school, Colegio San Ignacio, and not the rest of the Islands students? The response was usually stunned silence!
One of my conclusions will be that a State of Puerto Rico is a real possibility and could contribute a grea deal-as it already has-to the cultural, social and economic life of the Nation.
I will also be arguing that the only two options with any political dignity are statehood and independence. As a Puerto Rican Jesuit told me: “It’s time to end our political courtship with the U.S. We should marry or break off our engagement.”
on the wrong path
Well, to base your assessment of the preservation of Puerto Rican culture on the conversations you may have had with some independistas in the United States who were of Puerto Rican heritage and some members of the PPD who spoke English is really inadequate and disingenous. The reality is that American history is full of examples of Hispanic states that lost their culture and language when they were absorbed into the Union. This is fact. This is in violation of the Treaty of Guadalupe, signed between Mexico and the U.S. after the Mexican American War. In California, for example, Californios were supposed to be allowed to continue their customs. All laws were to be promulgated in Spanish and English. This was never implemented. America’s past and present point to the dissipation and/or elimination of the cultures that are other than Anglo-American–beginning with the loss of language. The fact that someone may consider themselves Puerto Rican does not mean that they know anything about Puerto Rican culture. They may be referring solely to their “ethnic” background the way an Italo-American or Irish American might. The fact that members of the PPD who, I guess, had attended private school learned how to speak English and were silent in allegedly in reaction to question is meaningless. They never responded. What did you interpret this to mean. It could only be an interpretation since they never stated anything. And from this silence which you have interpreted a certain way, you’ve reached an empty conclusion.
What would the U.S. gain that it already does not have in Puerto Rico’s colonial condition? This is the question that must be raised.
RE: on the wrong path
The US would gain its dignity as a democratic society that puts its action where it puts its words. The US cannot claim to be the showcase of democracy of the world when it keeps PR under a colonial boot. Colonialism is the antithesis of democracy.
Furthermore, when you consider that the exercise in colonialism is being performed against American citizens, you can only conclude that this is ridiculous. Puerto Rico is inhabitet by American citizens without full congressional representation and without any participation in the voting for the President.
So, it is not only what the US would gain, Kiwi. The question is what the US must do to practice what it preaches.
Finally, the point made by Rev. Cotter is well made. The arguments against statehood in PR are very superficial and insignificant, because they are culturally oriented. The different cultural traits that abound throughout the US nation will continue to evolve and change. The will of the people will trace the cultural route and it is very difficult to rule against it, unless we become a totalitarian country.
Puerto Rico today is culturaly different than it was 50 years ago, and even more fifty years from now – statehood or not.
If laws pretending to control culture did not work in several states, thios only proves that culture cannot be controlled.
RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
The free association option will necessarily entail losing our American citizenship. A pact of free association can only be exercised between two sovereign nations. Once PR acquires its sovereignty, the US has to let us go as a territory. Right then and there, American citizenship is lost for those born from then on. The question is whether the US will allow us to retain such citizenship after we have rejected it.
With regards to your losing your “identity” after we become a state, when you are asked where you come from, I suppose you will say “from The USA!!!” No Jerry. You will say “Puerto Rico.”
RE: Re: Free Association: Puerto Rico
If statehood means the anihilation of Puerto Ricans, how come you ask us to ask Alaskans and Hawaiians?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Free Association: Puerto Rico
The important thing for you to do after we become independent is to move back here and suffer the consequences of your thoughts.